sholio | (no subject)

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You know, there are times when, as an SGA fan, it's kind of heartening to be reminded that there are worse shows out there. It's even more heartening to be reminded that even the Star Trek franchise had its lousy episodes. (Even though TOS is still and will always be one of my favorite shows ever, the writers' grasp on biochemistry, anthropology or, god forbid, convergent evolution was pretty flimsy.) Or perhaps an entire lousy series or two ...

... which is why I've been reading agonybooth.com's recaps of the Worst Ever Star Trek Episodes and giggling myself silly. (Quick warning: Some of the commentary in these recaps is quite funny. Some of it makes you want to smack the writer in the face with a dead flounder. Brace yourself for a bit of casual sexism and repeated use of the word "retarded".)

SGA had some embarrassingly bad episodes, but at least no main character ever spent an entire episode in sickbay freaking out about a sick dog or evolved into a salamander and had little salamander babies with his commanding officer. ("Conversion", I guess, got pretty close in some ways, but never hit the absolute rock bottom of having Sheppard carry off Weir to impregnate her with salamanders. That's actually the only Voyager episode that I specifically remember from the limited number of episodes that I've seen. It may have been awful, but at least it was memorably awful!)

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Oh, god, "Threshold".
I was a huge Voyager fan, and even I was cringing over that one. At least Farscape had the good crack. The writers of Threshold? Must have been smoking some pretty damn bad weed.

Hee! I think it's hilarious that I remember that episode and remember it vividly despite the fact that I don't remember much else about the series other than the characters. (The Star Treks, other than TOS, were always "my sister's show" and I never really watched them with a whole lot of attention myself. I've always meant to go back and catch up from the beginning on some of them, especially DS9 -- which, again, I remember nothing other than the characters and a few moments here and there.)

I've spent the last year or so alternately fanning on SGA and castigating myself viciously for ever developing a fondness for such a piece of dreck ... occasionally both at the same time. Odd as it sounds, it's kind of nice to be reminded that "Irresponsible" and "Inquisition" are not, in fact, the lowest depths that sci-fi TV can sink to. *g*

I don't remember too much Voyager, and back then I was not the most discerning fan, but even I remember the horror of it.

I just lost waaaaay too much of my morning reading the sickbay recap.

XD

*giggles helplessly* I KNOW! That's one of the best ones, really. And by best, I mean "worst". *goes back to reading "Star Trek V" recap*

Oh, I had read these just a few weeks ago. And I have felt as you now do about the cross-comparison with SGA for some time. Heck, I couldn't even get further than an hour into original BSG because it was too painful!

Some of the commentary in these recaps is quite funny. Some of it makes you want to smack the writer in the face with a dead flounder.

That was my reaction too.

The Star Trek V one is hilarious. That movie is just so BAD! I rewatched it recently, and couldn't believe how bad it was. I've been listening to Shatner's ST movie memories, and I know they had major problems during writing and filming it, but his original vision for it actually sounds worse than what they ended up with.

The reviewer is right about "Spock's Brain" (which I also rewatched recently and laughed my head off throughout). It's BAD, so bad I can barely believe the actors agreed to say the lines (McCoy:His brain is gone! Kirk:But he can't live without a brain. We have to find whoever's stolen Spock's brain!), but it's not dull. It's televised bad!fic. "And the Children Shall Lead" long stuck in my memory as BAD BAD BAD without being amusing. I'm glad others agree.

Star Trek TOS has wonderful WTF moments, and nearly all the romance goes from 0 to Kirk's patented shoulder-grab and smooch in about 5 minutes. Declarations of love take about 30 seconds more. It's really quite astounding.

And I have felt as you now do about the cross-comparison with SGA for some time.

Oh, thank goodness it's not just me! You'd sometimes think reading SGA reaction posts that it's the worst show ever written, and there are some episodes that I would really like to pretend never happened, as well as some overall frustrations that I have with the writing -- but it has nothing, NOTHING on certain episodes of Star Trek (including pretty much all of Enterprise, a show I gave up on after about two episodes).

"Spock's Brain" is one of those episodes that's so utterly awful in concept that it can't NOT be entertaining. But pretty much every single episode has moments of cheese-tastic awesome badficness. Shatner and ... his ... acting! The ham-handed social metaphors in the form of civilizations that are EXACTLY like Earth at various points in its history right down to the hats and slang! The show's puppylike, good-hearted earnestness in its attempts to depict gender and racial equality while failing in pretty much every conceivable way. Awww, TOS. *hugs it*

I need proper TOS icons! All I have is a handful with the Reboot cast ...

it has nothing, NOTHING on certain episodes of Star Trek (including pretty much all of Enterprise, a show I gave up on after about two episodes).
I managed a bit longer, and have watched/slept through season 1 twice (thought I'd better give it another go). One of my thoughts when we were waiting to hear if SGA would get a season 5 was "It has to go to season 5 - it has to beat Enterprise!".

What do you mean, Shatner's acting? I talk like that ALL the time! It's perfectly natural!

(I will admit that he does do comedy very well. Perhaps this is why I don't find him at all irritating in "Tribbles")

They did try. They failed. But you could tell they were trying.

I only have this Spock icon. Must get more.

I am always shocked when fic writers get me to like Kirk. Shocked, I say! But some of them can actually manage it! (And, yes, he is funny. He's funny even when he's not trying to be -- actually, the more gravitas or angst to the scene, the funnier he becomes -- so it's not surprising that he does well in funny episodes! :D )

One of my thoughts when we were waiting to hear if SGA would get a season 5 was "It has to go to season 5 - it has to beat Enterprise!".

I do sometimes have to fight off unbecoming fits of jealousy when I notice a show like, say, Smallville getting renewed for its umpty-gazillionth season (what is it up to, like, nine now?). I made it through a season and a half of that one, and from what I've heard, the part I saw was the good part!

My husband kept watching Enterprise, inexplicably, for a couple of seasons, so I got to see bits of it in the course of wandering through the living room when it was on. Nothing that I saw gave me any interest in going ahead and investigating further!

They did try. They failed. But you could tell they were trying.

Yeah, you can tell how hard they're trying; I really like that about the show. It's a funny dichotomy, though, because they'll be obviously working hard to earn their gold star and yet totally miss the boat by miles. And yet, they're working so hard!

I do sometimes have to fight off unbecoming fits of jealousy
You are not aloonnneee *Sing with me* I am here with you.... *come on, come on*
My yard stick of how unfair the TV universe is is "Everyone Hates Raymond" (my name for it). The whole series revolves around about 4 repeating jokes. And it won awards. And Raymond is SO annoying... And..and...and...

I watched the 2 "Mirror 'verse" episodes from the final season, having heard Scott Bakula get excited about them. The word "disappointed" would be a gross under-statement.

Oh, dear. The time... the time I will never get back that I spent reading the Threshold recap.

...it was worth it. OMG. Nothing can ever beat the sheer bad of that! BWAHAHAHAHA.

heeheehee! Isn't it AWFUL? In that train-wreck-fascinating, THIS IS SO BAD BUT I CAN'T LOOK AWAY kind of way. :D

... I feel so much better about SGA right now. *pets show*

It's really too bad that's your big impression of Voyager. I manage to forget that episode for weeks, even months at a time!

*g* I think selective amnesia is the only way to deal with that episode. And brain bleach, lots of brain bleach.

Reading the first page of the Sickbay episode review, where they recap the series overall, there's a lot of parallels between the two franchises -- Stargate, too, suffered from having the showrunners and writers spending their entire careers in the "bubble" of Stargate, and then not understanding why it didn't work when they tried to do something "new." And the showrunners there also wrote some of the worst episodes (Irresponsible). Plus the note about being able to overlook bad writing in a series if the cast gelled -- that's why SGA worked as well as it did, I think, because the cast had chemistry with each other and I got the impression that some of them were actively trying to subvert the material to give it some depth. The Boys from Bridge got much luckier in casting SGA than they deserved. We'll see if they get lucky twice, or if SG:U will be that franchise's Enterprise.

I remember watching "Threshold" when it aired -- it made a lasting impression on me, too! ;)

There are a surprising number of shows where the showrunners are notorious for writing the worst episodes, actually! Supernatural fans cringe when Kripke's name comes up in the writing credits; ditto for Dr. Who fans and RTD. I guess it makes sense that being in charge doesn't equal good plotting/dialogue skills and may even be a totally different skill set.

The same thing happens at Marvel and DC -- actually there are a lot of parallels to EVERY creative project that becomes a "franchise" or a "property" rather than a story. Anytime that people start talking about the "franchise", warning bells should go off. Even an individual series can't keep coming up with fresh ideas over the long haul; there are good reasons why the last seasons aren't usually as strong as the first couple. I don't know why anyone thinks it's a good idea to keep the same handful of people at the helm for decades. The only show/franchise I can think of that's kept its momentum over the long haul is Doctor Who, and they've done it through frequent changes of both show-runners and cast.

What would be REALLY hilarious would be if the guys who made the original Stargate movie do what they've been threatening to do, and make their own sequel movie. They made no secret of the fact that they hated SG1 and felt like it was an abomination of everything that their own (second-rate sci-fi) movie stood for, and they still hold the theatrical movie rights (as opposed to straight-to-DVD movies). Imagine the fandom having to deal with alternate and contradictory canon on top of everything!

LOL! Voyager was sooooo bad that me and a friend jokingly said we could write a better episode and spent a weekend planning that out :) All I can remember was that it involved Paris getting throw in jail (hey, it's a must on Voyager), some H/c and a moon base.

ahahahaha... I LOVE your icon! :D Oh, Star Trek.

I think monkeys with typewriters could write a better episode!

Ahaha Threshold! That is sort of amazingly awful. I was actually a Voyager fan, but I somehow managed to miss that one (luckily?). My hand-waving abilities are pretty much cast-iron, but even I would've balked at that.

I am amused that even TPTB of the show both admit that it was an awful episode, and try to ignore it in subsequent canon. That was one really bad episode! :D

I totally remember that Voyager episode, and I'm not even a Voyager fan! (I only watched it when I was bored and nothing else was on.) At first I was rather excited about it, thinking, "Oh, yay, whump." and then... and then!... As far as WTF moments go, that one had been a beauty ;)

You do have to wonder how this one made it through an entire team of writers and no one ever said, "Wow, this idea is really awful!" I am amused at how books (single writer) tend to be so much tighter and more coherent than TV and movies (multiple writers). You'd think having extra eyes on it would make it better, but instead it's like the worst aspects of doing anything by committee.

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