sholio: sun on winter trees (Default)
Sholio ([personal profile] sholio) wrote2009-05-23 11:34 am
Entry tags:

Oh, this can't end well

There's a post up this morning at Elizabeth Bear's LJ on the responsibility of the artist to Art that ties in interesting ways to some of the stuff I've been meta-ing about lately, on my own writing and why I write. (Also to the Patricia Wrede discussion, and this post on art vs. humanity, which I agree with 110%.) In fact, Bear's post and her core argument is pretty much a capsule example of Why [livejournal.com profile] friendshipper Dropped Out Of Art School. It was to get away from people who thought like that.

... Okay, that's not entirely fair. But when I read that post, my knee-jerk reaction was, "Oh god, it's like I'm a freshman again!" -- and not in a good way. The thing is, I loved studying art; I loved learning the techniques and studying and riffing off famous artists from the past. What I did not love, and what made me realize (among other things) that art-as-a-career was not for me, was the pretentiousness and self-importance of the fine-art world. I realized that I didn't have much in common with ahteeests whose goal as an artist was to discomfit or disgust or sicken their audience under the guise of Making A Statement.

I recognize that everyone is drawn to art (all sorts of art) for many different reasons. I believe that there is a very valid and necessary place in the world for art that discomfits and disturbs the complacent. But I resented (and still do resent), very deeply, the prevailing sense in the pro art world that this is the best and only way to be a "proper" artist. I loathe the pervasive idea that art which is created because it's fun, or created for the sake of pleasing or entertaining people, is less in every way, which goes hand-in-hand with the equally loathsome idea that the artist who creates it is not smart enough or artistic enough or brave enough to do real art.

I hate it because I've spent most of my adult life unlearning that idea and learning not to look down on myself for not being that kind of artist, even though, tangentially, my art is about what's important to me, and sometimes does make statements -- it's just that that's not my primary reason for making it.

The bit from Bear's post that really stood out for me:

My job as an artist is not to console you or distract you from the things in the world that make you unhappy. That's my job as an entertainer, and often it's in direct conflict with my job as an artist--but conflict is what makes narratives interesting, so that's okay. My job as an artist is not to give you characters and stories you care about and invest in and want to spend time with. That's my job as a storyteller, which supports and informs my job as an artist.


Yeah, well, I'm primarily a storyteller, and I'm proud of it. It's not that my work is never about anything -- my original work in particular is very often About Important Stuff. But it's more importantly about people -- telling their stories, getting invested in their lives, caring about them and making my reader care about them as much as I do. There's definitely a valuable place in fiction for making your reader think (and good fiction does), but I resent the implication that I'm not a proper artist if I'm more interested in telling my readers a proper story than poking them in the eye. And I don't think it would have prickled me so hard in the case of this particular blog post if artistic/creative academia wasn't full of this attitude (and if this one particular artist hadn't been brought up for failing to recognize her readers as people in the past, too).
ext_3572: (Default)

[identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com 2009-05-24 12:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Actually, if you talked to Michaelangelo, he'd look at you funny for mentioning heart or themes, and tell you he painted for the money...

...Well, not exactly; but in Renaissance times, painting and sculpture were very much crafts, skills you were taught and mastered for a living. That's not to say the great artists didn't also have themes they were trying to impart, or emotions they were trying to stir - but they were working for a living, and were responsible to their patrons, doing commissions - doing work that people liked and were willing to pay for. The great artists of the time were closer in spirit to, say, the superstars of Hollywood today - immensely talented but commercially oriented, sell-outs one and all. The idea of an "Artiste" motivated only by their own creativity and beholden to no one, that's a modern concept...

[identity profile] horridporrid.livejournal.com 2009-05-25 07:21 pm (UTC)(link)
I've read a couple of articles about cooking and art that relates to this. Because there are definitely artistic chefs out there but they have to answer to their audience in a way painters (and such) don't have to today. Because it doesn't matter how out there and stunning and new a dish is, if it doesn't taste good it flops. So there's this hanging, unanswered question: is that a bad thing?

Is having a responsibility to an audience, an understanding that you have to take the audience with you on your artistic journey, at least a little bit of the way a good thing that's been lost?

Or are chefs trapped by their need to please their patrons while painters are free to serve only their muse?
ext_3572: (Default)

[identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com 2009-05-25 07:41 pm (UTC)(link)
That is the question - what good is food that no one wants to eat? It's not really food, if no one eats it. A spectacularly creative dish may be great "art" but not food anymore, and the person who makes it is then...what? An artist, perhaps yes, but not a chef, because a chef is someone who cooks food...

So art that no one wants to look at, because it's too edgy, too uncomfortable...is that really art anymore?

[identity profile] horridporrid.livejournal.com 2009-05-25 08:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Which reminds me of another article (*g*) where the composer, John Adams, talked about his very early pieces. All very artistic and edgy and he summed it up as basically trying to bore the audience to death. But he had an epiphany at some point while listening to Wagner (iirc, which I hope I do because that's hilarious!) where he realized that Wagner cared about what he was writing and he wanted the audience to care, too. And Adams realized this was a worthy and important goal, to bring the audience along with you. (At least, that's what I got out of the article. I'm a bit nervous to say that this is exactly what Adams' believes.)

I think there's this confused idea that all art must break the rules (and therefore be "edgy") to be considered art. And that's just... Well, if everyone's breaking the rules, why have any rules to begin with? Doesn't it throw all structure out the window? Yes, a great artist can come along and break (or probably more accurately, push) the rules and music/art/writing will never be the same. But the great ones carry their audience with them. They push for a reason, not just for the sake of breaking something. And merely breaking the rules doesn't make you an artist.
ext_1981: (Default)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2009-05-25 08:57 pm (UTC)(link)
... which is interesting because one of the things I've been thinking about, related to all of this, is how classical music since about 1900 has been pretty nearly impossible to listen to -- it's all about pushing boundaries and breaking "rules" rather than creating something that's pleasant to hear. (Hubby and I joke about "Symphony for Chainsaw and Strangled Cat, in D Minor".) The main counter-examples to this are, ironically enough, the scores for popular films! Which of course are very commercial, but are aimed at creating something that the audience will like, that will support and uplift the emotional content of the movie. It has a purpose beyond simply being a creative exercise for the composer.

[identity profile] horridporrid.livejournal.com 2009-05-25 11:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, exactly! I think there's a piece that's nothing. I mean, literally a pianist comes out, sits at the piano for a specific amount of time (counting the rests, I presume?) and then leaves. I mean, seriously? That's a gimmick, shock-theater maybe, but certainly not music.

I will say, there are some very good modern pieces: Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings or John Tavener's Song for Athene, for example. But they do tend towards being the exception and I totally agree that movie scores are doing a lot (most, even?) of the heavy lifting in keeping orchestral music alive. Though I'm very hopeful that this is something that's changing. I think this sort of thing is starting to be questioned within the "artistic" groups (art as well as music). There's a dawning realization that, quite possibly, the emperor is naked. (Something audiences have been saying for years. *g*)

[identity profile] kriadydragon.livejournal.com 2009-05-27 12:05 am (UTC)(link)
Well, whatever the reason, it all comes down to doing what they did for reasons other than making loud, bold statements. Not to say some of them didn't have that in mind, but I doubt they were many.