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Dungeon Crawler Carl reread
I have read book 8 (the new one) and loved it, but I haven't posted about it for reasons of general mental overwhelm as mentioned in the last post. (There was a lot in that book!) I decided to reread the first few chapters of book 1 for the early character intros, and uhhhhh I've now reread my way through to fairly late in book 3.
Random thoughts about these early books below, including potential spoilers for the whole series here and in comments.
- It is so fascinating going from the 8th book, where they're all basically god-tier, to the first couple of books when they're still learning to fight and can barely beat a 3rd level enemy. It's especially interesting to remember how I reacted the first time to the Level 95 rage elemental they accidentally summon on floor 2 - where it's just "holy shit, this thing is invulnerable, they're gonna die." And then in book 8 they're basically one-shotting things like this, and just killed a god and a floor boss.
- I know a lot of people consider book 3 the weakest one, but I really like it; I'm a complete sucker for puzzle/problem-solving action fiction (don't know if there was a word for it; I feel like there used to be more of this kind of thing around in 1970s/80s SFF) and this book really hits those buttons. I mean, the whole series does, but I genuinely like the constrained set of variables in book 3, though admittedly it does get repetitive as they approach the end of the level. It was more fun early on when they were figuring things out. I think I actually liked this book even more on the reread because the first time, there was something incredibly claustrophobic and tense about having everything so tightly constrained to the tunnels (a combination of the actual claustrophobia, and not knowing how he was going to get a whole book out of such a limited set of options), and now I know that it does work out and it does stay interesting. I remember finding the experience of reading this book more unpleasantly tense the first time, whereas this time it's just fun.
- I also remember finding book 3 way grosser than it actually is. I mean, parts of it are definitely gross; I do not like the skinless vomit rabbits, and plowing through the tunnel in a wave of blood and body parts slowly filling up the cab of the train is definitely memorably violent in a series full of memorable violence. But I feel like my reactions to it were more visceral the first time around, whereas this time I kept bracing myself for even worse gore than actually happens.
(The worms in the second book are still probably the worst thing in this series for me personally. I decided to skip most of the circus subplot on the reread.)
- It is so fascinating getting the early introductions of all the crawlers after seeing where they end up! I had forgotten where a lot of these people came from. 100% did NOT remember that Chris was part of the early Meadow Lark group, for example. Also did not remember that Yolanda died so early.
- Katia is another one who is interesting to revisit early on. I remember on my first read that the part where the game (by way of Zev) points out that Katia isn't interesting and needs to do something to get viewers invested in her was speaking for the audience as well: she really isn't as interesting as Carl and Donut! And readers are inevitably going to resent a new party member horning in the middle of their well-established partnership! And now this time around, it's just like - hey! That's Katia! Stop being mean to her! >:|
- Along those lines, although I liked him as a character, I absolutely did not recognize what a sweetheart Mordecai is on my first read of this series. I think part of it is that Carl is at odds with him a lot, and so much of his screen time involves telling Carl and Donut to give up on the others and save themselves (because he's trying to keep them alive!) and his frustration with being stuck as their manager. But he very clearly gets attached to them almost immediately, and it's not just them, like - his first reaction to Katia is to sit down with her and start helping her try to control her powers and fix her face, before there's any actual game benefit to helping her. On my first read, I remember that I was halfway expecting that Mordecai was being set up to betray them (especially with all the hints about him having some kind of ~shady past~ involving Odette and Chaco), and I kept thinking that right up until the book in which we find out he's hiding the NPC kids in the saferoom (book 5 or 6, I think?), which was the point where I finally stopped looking for the hidden trap and accepted that he really is genuine. And he is: I think it might have been pointed out somewhere in the books (or maybe this was a Reddit post; I was checking the wikis a lot when I read book 8) that Carl and Donut really, really lucked out in their game guide. He seems to be one of the few who's not a complete psycho, is genuinely a good guy who's trying to keep his crawlers alive, and hasn't been completely swallowed by despair and cynicism to the point where he's useless.
(It is actually really interesting to compare Mordecai's behavior as Donut's manager to Odette's as Mordecai's. I skipped ahead to reread the flashback to Mordecai's crawl and Odette cheating to get them off the floor alive, and then selling them out to get the full payoff when she gets out of the dungeon. I think that part of Mordecai's resistance to being made manager is not just because it extends his time in the dungeon, but also because he's afraid that being put in the exact same position as Odette - this being his last crawl - that he'd be tempted into making the same decision. But I don't think he actually would do it. The setup of the dungeon is such that Mordecai can't sacrifice his life for them, at least not permanently - unless the rules change on the high-level floors, which they might - but he could sacrifice his future for them, and I think it'd be really interesting to find out what happens if he ever had to make that choice.)
- The dungeon AI is so much more ... hinged ... on these early floors. We barely have a sense of it as a character at all yet, and that's mostly in the form of jokes about foot fetishes.
- Another thing I did not remember is that Agatha was signposted as being Different and Important as early as the first book. In fact, quite a lot of the later lore stuff comes in early: the aerial strike on the trailer (in which we find out that quite a few of the aliens are physically present in the system), the Maestro-Stalwart-etc thing, the Valtay worms and other major antagonist races besides the kua-tin.
- I think next book is the one in which we get Samantha's first appearance! I cannot wait.
Random thoughts about these early books below, including potential spoilers for the whole series here and in comments.
- It is so fascinating going from the 8th book, where they're all basically god-tier, to the first couple of books when they're still learning to fight and can barely beat a 3rd level enemy. It's especially interesting to remember how I reacted the first time to the Level 95 rage elemental they accidentally summon on floor 2 - where it's just "holy shit, this thing is invulnerable, they're gonna die." And then in book 8 they're basically one-shotting things like this, and just killed a god and a floor boss.
- I know a lot of people consider book 3 the weakest one, but I really like it; I'm a complete sucker for puzzle/problem-solving action fiction (don't know if there was a word for it; I feel like there used to be more of this kind of thing around in 1970s/80s SFF) and this book really hits those buttons. I mean, the whole series does, but I genuinely like the constrained set of variables in book 3, though admittedly it does get repetitive as they approach the end of the level. It was more fun early on when they were figuring things out. I think I actually liked this book even more on the reread because the first time, there was something incredibly claustrophobic and tense about having everything so tightly constrained to the tunnels (a combination of the actual claustrophobia, and not knowing how he was going to get a whole book out of such a limited set of options), and now I know that it does work out and it does stay interesting. I remember finding the experience of reading this book more unpleasantly tense the first time, whereas this time it's just fun.
- I also remember finding book 3 way grosser than it actually is. I mean, parts of it are definitely gross; I do not like the skinless vomit rabbits, and plowing through the tunnel in a wave of blood and body parts slowly filling up the cab of the train is definitely memorably violent in a series full of memorable violence. But I feel like my reactions to it were more visceral the first time around, whereas this time I kept bracing myself for even worse gore than actually happens.
(The worms in the second book are still probably the worst thing in this series for me personally. I decided to skip most of the circus subplot on the reread.)
- It is so fascinating getting the early introductions of all the crawlers after seeing where they end up! I had forgotten where a lot of these people came from. 100% did NOT remember that Chris was part of the early Meadow Lark group, for example. Also did not remember that Yolanda died so early.
- Katia is another one who is interesting to revisit early on. I remember on my first read that the part where the game (by way of Zev) points out that Katia isn't interesting and needs to do something to get viewers invested in her was speaking for the audience as well: she really isn't as interesting as Carl and Donut! And readers are inevitably going to resent a new party member horning in the middle of their well-established partnership! And now this time around, it's just like - hey! That's Katia! Stop being mean to her! >:|
- Along those lines, although I liked him as a character, I absolutely did not recognize what a sweetheart Mordecai is on my first read of this series. I think part of it is that Carl is at odds with him a lot, and so much of his screen time involves telling Carl and Donut to give up on the others and save themselves (because he's trying to keep them alive!) and his frustration with being stuck as their manager. But he very clearly gets attached to them almost immediately, and it's not just them, like - his first reaction to Katia is to sit down with her and start helping her try to control her powers and fix her face, before there's any actual game benefit to helping her. On my first read, I remember that I was halfway expecting that Mordecai was being set up to betray them (especially with all the hints about him having some kind of ~shady past~ involving Odette and Chaco), and I kept thinking that right up until the book in which we find out he's hiding the NPC kids in the saferoom (book 5 or 6, I think?), which was the point where I finally stopped looking for the hidden trap and accepted that he really is genuine. And he is: I think it might have been pointed out somewhere in the books (or maybe this was a Reddit post; I was checking the wikis a lot when I read book 8) that Carl and Donut really, really lucked out in their game guide. He seems to be one of the few who's not a complete psycho, is genuinely a good guy who's trying to keep his crawlers alive, and hasn't been completely swallowed by despair and cynicism to the point where he's useless.
(It is actually really interesting to compare Mordecai's behavior as Donut's manager to Odette's as Mordecai's. I skipped ahead to reread the flashback to Mordecai's crawl and Odette cheating to get them off the floor alive, and then selling them out to get the full payoff when she gets out of the dungeon. I think that part of Mordecai's resistance to being made manager is not just because it extends his time in the dungeon, but also because he's afraid that being put in the exact same position as Odette - this being his last crawl - that he'd be tempted into making the same decision. But I don't think he actually would do it. The setup of the dungeon is such that Mordecai can't sacrifice his life for them, at least not permanently - unless the rules change on the high-level floors, which they might - but he could sacrifice his future for them, and I think it'd be really interesting to find out what happens if he ever had to make that choice.)
- The dungeon AI is so much more ... hinged ... on these early floors. We barely have a sense of it as a character at all yet, and that's mostly in the form of jokes about foot fetishes.
- Another thing I did not remember is that Agatha was signposted as being Different and Important as early as the first book. In fact, quite a lot of the later lore stuff comes in early: the aerial strike on the trailer (in which we find out that quite a few of the aliens are physically present in the system), the Maestro-Stalwart-etc thing, the Valtay worms and other major antagonist races besides the kua-tin.
- I think next book is the one in which we get Samantha's first appearance! I cannot wait.
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I binged the first 7 so sometimes I forget what happened when. I really enjoyed the storyline with Katia and her former party in book 3, and the fourth wall winks with her introduction worked very well for me too.
They definitely got really lucky with Mordecai!!
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Oh totally, but it's so nice to see that so much of it pays off instead of just fizzling out the way these things often do.
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But an interesting summary and appreciated!
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Does he have a shady past?
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So I don't know how much you know of the series' premise, but the characters are all trapped in an alien game show that takes the form of a multi-level dungeon full of traps and monsters. Each "season" of the game, the players are of course strung along with the temptation of reaching the end and being free, but in reality the game is so tough to beat that they're inevitably all going to either die or escape by taking (usually terrible) deals to work in various support roles in the dungeon as, basically, indentured slaves for decades until they can work off their indenture. Mordecai is one of the latter, a former player who is now working as an advisor/guide to "our" batch of players. He's a specialist in alchemy and potions. I think it was mentioned that he was a mycologist before he got trapped in the dungeon like the rest of them.
[spoilers for Mordecai's storyline follow]
For the first few books, all we know is that he really has it in for two people, Odette and Chaco, both of whom are former players now working in other roles in the game, and that all of them were mixed up in something together. When we eventually get the whole story, it turns out that they were all on a team together, with Odette in the same advisor/managerial role that Mordecai is now. Odette made an illegal deal to get them through one of the levels and herself out, it fell through, and to stop everyone from being killed she made a much worse deal that involved Odette having to manipulate Chaco into killing Mordecai's brother to advance them to the next level of the game. So basically, all of his friends and loved ones are now either dead or were responsible for the rest of his friends and loved ones getting killed. He's on the verge of getting out himself if he can get his current batch of players (the main characters) through the next few levels alive, and his only real goal at that point is to find Odette and Chaco, kill them to avenge his family, and then probably drink himself to death.
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Looks tragically plausible to me.