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Still thinking about B5? More likely than you think!
And writing about it instead of getting ready to check out of my Airbnb as I ought to be.
I was laying in bed last night thinking about Delenn and season five. One of the things I think about frequently is the show's deaths, and especially in the context of the "dying in the dark" quote from Comes the Inquisitor. ("No greater love hath a man, than he lay down his life for his brother. Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame. But for one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.")
The Inquisitor, and the Vorlons in general, are obviously not the great moral arbiters that they set themselves up to be, and the show itself leaves it open to interpretation just how accurate the show's various instances of directly stating its themes are meant to be. But I definitely think one of the main reasons why the deaths in this show feel so much more earned than in many other shows I can think of, is because of how much agency the dying characters have in their own deaths. There are also some random, senseless deaths, here and there, of course. But for the most part, the main or main-supporting characters who die choose their death and they generally do it for the reasons stated above: for the sake of someone they love. It's widely variable where they fall along the "only one person" to "greater good" spectrum - that is, Marcus very directly sacrifices himself to save Ivanova; Neroon steps into the Starfire Wheel to save his people but also to save Delenn; Londo dies for Centauri Prime, but also to save Delenn and Sheridan; G'Kar dies for the Centauri but primarily, and much more pointedly, for Londo.
Which brings me to the actual point of this post: Delenn and G'Kar and the choices they make in "And All My Dreams Torn Asunder" in season 5, which foreshadows their eventual fates.
I was thinking about Delenn in general, and more specifically, in spite of being the one who is the central character in "Comes the Inquisitor," I really don't think Delenn would - in general - make the choice to die for someone she loves, especially at the cost of the bigger picture. I'm not saying she's not brave or self-sacrificing, because obviously she is, and there are probably specific circumstances in which she might make that choice (for Sheridan, mostly; I'm not sure if she'd do it for anyone else). But like - Delenn wouldn't have stepped into the Starfire Wheel for Neroon. She very demonstrably doesn't! Delenn sacrifices for the greater good over and over - her original Minbari nature, various aspects of the future she no doubt had planned, etc. She would have died in the war if she'd been in a situation where it was clearly a choice that would have made a difference. But giving herself up for another person is not generally in her nature, and where she ends up, at the end of it all, is outliving everyone she's ever loved.
So I was thinking about "Asunder" in season five and how the choices Delenn and G'Kar make re: the Centauri threat to the Alliance, and re: Londo, is a clear indicator of where their lives eventually end up. Delenn chooses the greater good over her friend; we see how it tears her up to do it (though Londo doesn't), but she betrays Londo to save the Alliance. Delenn not only wouldn't save a friend, she'd throw one under the bus if she had to, in order to hold together the fragile peace they've built.
G'Kar makes the opposite decision: to stand by Londo even if it eventually puts him in direct opposition to the Alliance and on the wrong side of a war with his own people. Neither of them are inherently right or wrong (and in fact, for the Alliance to stand and not fall apart, someone had to do what Delenn did) but it is really interesting how their actions in that episode are not only a dramatic demonstration of who they are as characters, but a look ahead, at where they're going to end up.
Londo's choices in "Asunder" are like that too, of course - he chooses to stand by his world over either the Alliance or friendship. (And if he chooses differently later on - to stand between his world and G'Kar - the only person who knows it, maybe the only person who ever knows it who actually cares, is G'Kar; Delenn isn't even aware that he saved her later on.) But his public face is that of his world. Each of them makes the choice that is going to be their tragedy (and their heroism) in the end.
I was laying in bed last night thinking about Delenn and season five. One of the things I think about frequently is the show's deaths, and especially in the context of the "dying in the dark" quote from Comes the Inquisitor. ("No greater love hath a man, than he lay down his life for his brother. Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame. But for one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.")
The Inquisitor, and the Vorlons in general, are obviously not the great moral arbiters that they set themselves up to be, and the show itself leaves it open to interpretation just how accurate the show's various instances of directly stating its themes are meant to be. But I definitely think one of the main reasons why the deaths in this show feel so much more earned than in many other shows I can think of, is because of how much agency the dying characters have in their own deaths. There are also some random, senseless deaths, here and there, of course. But for the most part, the main or main-supporting characters who die choose their death and they generally do it for the reasons stated above: for the sake of someone they love. It's widely variable where they fall along the "only one person" to "greater good" spectrum - that is, Marcus very directly sacrifices himself to save Ivanova; Neroon steps into the Starfire Wheel to save his people but also to save Delenn; Londo dies for Centauri Prime, but also to save Delenn and Sheridan; G'Kar dies for the Centauri but primarily, and much more pointedly, for Londo.
Which brings me to the actual point of this post: Delenn and G'Kar and the choices they make in "And All My Dreams Torn Asunder" in season 5, which foreshadows their eventual fates.
I was thinking about Delenn in general, and more specifically, in spite of being the one who is the central character in "Comes the Inquisitor," I really don't think Delenn would - in general - make the choice to die for someone she loves, especially at the cost of the bigger picture. I'm not saying she's not brave or self-sacrificing, because obviously she is, and there are probably specific circumstances in which she might make that choice (for Sheridan, mostly; I'm not sure if she'd do it for anyone else). But like - Delenn wouldn't have stepped into the Starfire Wheel for Neroon. She very demonstrably doesn't! Delenn sacrifices for the greater good over and over - her original Minbari nature, various aspects of the future she no doubt had planned, etc. She would have died in the war if she'd been in a situation where it was clearly a choice that would have made a difference. But giving herself up for another person is not generally in her nature, and where she ends up, at the end of it all, is outliving everyone she's ever loved.
So I was thinking about "Asunder" in season five and how the choices Delenn and G'Kar make re: the Centauri threat to the Alliance, and re: Londo, is a clear indicator of where their lives eventually end up. Delenn chooses the greater good over her friend; we see how it tears her up to do it (though Londo doesn't), but she betrays Londo to save the Alliance. Delenn not only wouldn't save a friend, she'd throw one under the bus if she had to, in order to hold together the fragile peace they've built.
G'Kar makes the opposite decision: to stand by Londo even if it eventually puts him in direct opposition to the Alliance and on the wrong side of a war with his own people. Neither of them are inherently right or wrong (and in fact, for the Alliance to stand and not fall apart, someone had to do what Delenn did) but it is really interesting how their actions in that episode are not only a dramatic demonstration of who they are as characters, but a look ahead, at where they're going to end up.
Londo's choices in "Asunder" are like that too, of course - he chooses to stand by his world over either the Alliance or friendship. (And if he chooses differently later on - to stand between his world and G'Kar - the only person who knows it, maybe the only person who ever knows it who actually cares, is G'Kar; Delenn isn't even aware that he saved her later on.) But his public face is that of his world. Each of them makes the choice that is going to be their tragedy (and their heroism) in the end.
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I hadn't linked those two points like that before. It isn't a moral desert, but what a sharp place.
(And if he chooses differently later on - to stand between his world and G'Kar - the only person who knows it, maybe the only person who ever knows it who actually cares, is G'Kar; Delenn isn't even aware that he saved her later on.)
It's one of the reasons that Alliance-building stretch in Season 5 is so nice to watch, because otherwise the best of Londo is generally seen by one or two people while entire planetary systems get to hear about his war crimes.
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Yeah, definitely not a moral desert at all - I mean, you could also phrase it as "she survived the war, she held the Alliance together, and she was there to see the Alliance and the Rangers into a new era." But the contrast is fascinating, and so is the personal cost. I remember us talking at the time (when I originally watched it) about Delenn and Sheridan looking at the situation from a big-picture point of view, while G'Kar was more personally focused. Connecting that to the "dying for one person" hadn't occurred to me until last night - she just isn't that person, in general. Sheridan isn't either, though; they get each other that way.
I do also like that, although she and G'Kar make opposite choices in that episode, they still respect each other's choices, and they have that warm moment before they part.
It's one of the reasons that Alliance-building stretch in Season 5 is so nice to watch, because otherwise the best of Londo is generally seen by one or two people while entire planetary systems get to hear about his war crimes.
AUGH. But also, accurate.
I really love that he got to have that - they all got to have that! I was rewatching the scene with Vir at the end of the Cartagia arc, with the hug and "the universe can't object if you're happy for one night," and thinking about how, after that, he got to be happy for a whole season. Things fell apart at the end, but we got to see what happy looks like on him, and as you say, everyone else got to see the best of him for a while. And it was nice.
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Oooh... Really like your thoughts on both the sacrifices these characters are prepared to make and how it dovetails with their show endings. And I agree with your thoughts, especially on Delenn. She is really such an interesting character, because while she makes all kinds of sacrifices, of course, they are sacrifices that still leave her with the ability to make the next move.