sholio | Enemies to lovers

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Enemies to lovers

I ended up nominating a few things for Enemies to Lovers (hush, I'm using it as a bribe for finishing my other assignments xD) and this made me spend some time thinking about which of my ships actually qualify - I had some trouble coming up with a third fandom, and trying to figure out where exactly I'd draw the line. (Like, I wouldn't call Sam/Bucky E2L - more like people who mildly antagonize each other to friends/lovers. But some might!)

So I got to wondering how other people define it. I selected check boxes since some people might have more than one answer. I mean, *I'm* not even sure where I fall in all of this!

Poll #33342

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 58

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How would you define Enemies to Lovers? (or Enemies to Friends, if you're not a shipper)

View Answers

Must try to kill each other (or at least want to), or be on opposite sides of a conflict with life-or-death stakes
20 (34.5%)

Rivalries like sports rivalries are fine, but there needs to be a strong personal element and/or unhealthy fixation on each other (not just regular sports team conflict)
26 (44.8%)

Any kind of rivalry or antagonism will do
12 (20.7%)

For me it's about the Vibe™ - from distrust/antagonism to trust, whatever form that takes
26 (44.8%)

I do not accept it as proper E2L if there's any softening at all - they must remain antagonists
0 (0.0%)

I know it when I see it but don't get too fussed about definitions
9 (15.5%)

My thoughts are too complex for your ticky boxes (answer in comments)
1 (1.7%)

Not my trope so I don't care, but I want to click something.
3 (5.2%)

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Are you the one who nominated Carol/Yon-Rogg? I was *eyes emoji* at that. Alas, I don't think I have enough qualifying ships to count, either. (And definitely don't need to sign up for another exchange when I'm already considering doing FIAB again...)

Yes, that was me! I was sitting there going "I KNOW I have MORE...." and then "OH WAIT." I would love to have a chance to write about them again; it's been so long!

(But yeah, it is hard to come up with a full slate of signups for some of the more specific exchanges. Also, Too Many Exchanges is definitely a problem.)

It's suuuuuch a good ship

Huh, yeah, it's tricky, isn't it.

Also arguably "Must try to kill each other (or at least want to), or be on opposite sides of a conflict with life-or-death stakes" combines multiple different things -- there's "you are my enemy and I genuinely hate and despise you and want to kill you" but there's also "you are on the opposite side of a life-or-death conflict to me, and I might have to kill you but I regard you as my honourable enemy and would regret having to do so." Very different vibes to those.

(Like, I definitely wouldn't call Sam/Bucky E2L - more like people who mildly antagonize each other to friends/lovers.)

I suspect a bunch of things get labelled "Enemies to Lovers" when they aren't ever properly "enemies" just because we don't have a snappy label for "Aggravations to Lovers" or "Grudging/Wary Allies to Lovers".

Yeah, I ticked three different boxes because I really can't make up my mind! As you say, being enemies in a life-or-death conflict can encompass a whole range of options from "I actively hate you and want to kill you" to "I would hate having to kill you because we might have been friends under other circumstances."

I think for me there do have to be stakes - it's at least partly about the push-pull tension between heart and duty, between what you feel like you *should* want and what you actually want, between what you want and what you can have, etc. So if it would be comparatively easy - if the only thing stopping them from getting together (or just sitting down and having a comfortable lunch) is backing down on the bickering, it doesn't really hit that button - and I do enjoy plenty of relationships like that! But it's not that. However, what makes it That is at least partly vibes-based, I think.

As you say, though, I think it's often used as a blanket term because "Aggravation to Lovers" doesn't really have another simple, easily accepted term. (Edit: I softened the language slightly on Sam/Bucky because I think some people *would* call that E2L and I don't think they're wrong, I just don't think it hits that vibe strongly enough for me to call it that, even though it's definitely a thing I like, but it's not that thing.)

Edited (additional context) 2025-07-09 19:12 (UTC)

As you say, though, I think it's often used as a blanket term because "Aggravation to Lovers" doesn't really have another simple, easily accepted term.

It really should, because "these people won't fucking stop bickering even though they also maybe grudgingly kind of like each other an increasing amount, and maybe bickering is becoming a way of expressing affection" is a dynamic very dear to my heart, and (to me) distinctly different from E2L.

ETA: thinking about it -- I wonder if a key aspect of Aggravations to Lovers is that they don't have an objective high-stakes reason to be enemies (or they do but it's treated as insignificant: "Yeah sure he tried to kill me that one time but that's not important, the important thing is that he's a dick").

ETA2: why yes I did imprint on Much Ado About Nothing at an impressionable age, why did you ask.

Edited 2025-07-10 08:56 (UTC)

So I got to wondering how other people define it. I selected check boxes since some people might have more than one answer.

It is worth interrogating! I don't think that I require them to have actually tried to kill one another, but I need the stakes to be that high politically and/or emotionally for the arc to qualify as enemies to lovers as opposed to just mutual dislike to romance à la The Shop Around the Corner.

Edited 2025-07-09 19:21 (UTC)

Yeah, I think it's stakes for me as well - which I hadn't realized until making the poll and then trying to figure out what I'd click! Which is usually related to a life or death conflict, but I think it could easily be something else if the intensity was high enough. Quoting myself from an above comment, once I started thinking about it, I think the main thing that makes it have that feeling for me is the push-pull tension between heart and duty, between what you feel like you *should* want and what you actually want, between what you want and what you can have, etc.

And also the shockingness, for the characters, of the pivot between the impossibility of ever wanting it, and the wanting of it. So it has to feel suitably impossible; it's not just that you can't have it, it's that you can't believe you could ever want it, until you do. Not merely that this person is someone you couldn't want, but something you never would.

This is such an interesting question! For me, the enemies-to-lovers ships that really hit are things like Biggles/EvS: they're on opposite sides, they're dutybound to oppose or even kill each other under certain circumstances, but they don't actually *want* to kill each other and in fact kind of secretly like each other despite everything.

Steve/Bucky in CATWS hits some of the same buttons, although obviously the mistaken identity and mindwiping of it all makes the specifics very different. But there's a similarity in the fact that circumstances are making these guys try to kill each other but under other circumstances they'd be friends.

But I think I need the intensity of life-or-death conflict for this particular kind of ship; I can't recall ever having a rival ship where they're rivals over something like sports, or a ship where they actually hate each other.

Yeah, the intensity is a huge part of it for me, I think! (Which I hadn't realized until actually posting the poll and thinking about where among the poll options I fall.) And I think I can enjoy that intensity across a wide range of options, including "actually hate each other, pivot to something else later" and "secretly admire/respect each other" or even "extremely intense misunderstanding" or "character forced to try to kill their friends" (as in the Steve/Bucky example, which you're right, I think it *does* hit some of those buttons for me, although not precisely).

I think "under other circumstances we'd be friends" is a big part of it for me too, but the circumstances can be such that they actually do legitimately hate each other until something makes it pivot. In fact, the bigger and more sudden the pivot, the more intensely it often hits me. But in the best and iddiest examples, it's not necessarily seeing something new, it's finally recognizing something that was there all along, a respect and liking that was growing without them noticing it.

(Now that I think about it, this entire discussion is really an excellent set of conversations to apply to my romance writing ... I should make myself a note.)

Ha, yes, this is super relevant to my writing too! Especially the story about the princess and her best-friend-turned-Communist-revolutionary who helped overthrow the principality's government at the end of World War I... They *were* friends under other circumstances but now circumstances (that they have helped create) have given them both strong reasons to want the other dead.

Interesting, I've never really thought of "enemies on different sides of a war" as enemies to lovers. I've always considered personal antagonism (not just having different allegiances) to be a necessary component. I feel like "we are from rival countries but we are more similar than alike and fall in love" is more like "star crossed lovers".

Completely valid; thank you for weighing in! I can see this, too, and I think one of the things that is the most interesting for me about this topic is that different people's definitions can be so different.

(I know I've talked to someone in the past, can't remember who, for whom the antagonism *always* being present is a vital component of an enemies-to-anything ship, which is why that option is on the poll. For me, it's important that it fades at least somewhat before or around the same time as the "lovers" part happens. I can't exactly say I'm not into hatesex AT ALL, it depends on the situation, but usually not with my major ships.)

That’s really interesting because I hadn’t really thought of it that way but I find that I agree that what I tend to think of as Enemy Mine ships (having watched that movie at a very pivotal time lol) - people on opposite sides of a war thrown together and having to help each other - does feel different from what I think of as E2L. I mean, that kind of Enemy Mine situation is a great way to progress E2L but can also exist independent of it. Like, Aral/Cordelia is a perfect Enemy Mine setup but doesn’t feel like E2L to me - there’s too much personal admiration and cooperation pretty much from the start and no preexisting personal conflict. Meanwhile, I think one of the reasons I love Taltos as much as I do is that Vlad basically smarthmouths himself and Morrolan into a totally unnecessary Enemy Mine setup for the Paths of the Dead, and there it absolutely works as a pivotal part of E2L progression for me.

Yeah, agreed re: Aral and Cordelia - they really don't have the vibe. (Which suggests that a lot of it does simply come down to vibes!) I think a lot of it is in the writing - two people who are technically enemies but immediately start to cooperate and like each other upon meeting doesn't really hit that button for me, but two enemies thrown into a forced-cooperation type situation who spend most of their initial time trying to kill each other and then manage to overcome that and cooperate later would definitely qualify as E2L for me, I think.

Or even two enemies who do respect and like each other, but need to continue working against each other for the sake of duty or because of orders - I think it would be a very different feeling with Aral and Cordelia if they were both under orders that required them to work at cross purposes for most of the book rather than cooperating, even if their personal interactions were still friendly. I think the fundamental tension of either "I hate you but have to work with you, and I hate that too" or "I like you but I'm forced to work against you and I hate it" is key to making the transitional phase of E2L work for me, I think!

... also LOLOLLLLL at Vlad forcing a completely unnecessary Enemy Mine situation! But Dragaera actually is a really interesting canon to look at how some relationships ping E2L and some don't. I mean, Vlad is antagonistic to just about everybody, and he and Morrolan definitely have an E2L kind of relationship, I think. But Vlad and Aliera don't really, at least I don't think so; even though she's in a superficially similar position to Vlad as Morrolan is (Dragaeran vs Easterner, from a different house than Vlad's) there never is a time when they're really enemies - their first interaction is to cooperate in escaping the Paths of the Dead.

Yeah a definitely think a lot of it is in the writing (and especially in POV), which is why I also checked the “vibes” box :D (and yep, both of the vibes you describe would work well for me as E2L transitional phase).

And agreed about the Dragaera vibes - Vlad and Aliera never feel like enemies (heck, Aliera and Morrolan feel more antagonistic a lot of the time than Aliera and Vlad. It probably is down to how they first met, as you say, but also I guess Aliera has less Jhereg prejudice because of [stuff in Paarfi which I think you haven’t read yet?]. I don’t know why the Easterner thing doesn’t bother her more… the reincarnation thing? she feels equally above baseline Dragaerans?

And then there’s Vlad and Sethra, who are antagonistic for about 2 minutes in Taltos but mostly Sethra is just amused and Vlad comes to his senses I guess. (And Sethra does of course have the advantage of knowing Vlad better than he realizes, thought it’s never been clear to me how much she uses that sort of advantage…)

Yeah. I wonder if it's because I think of Enemies to Lovers coming from a romance standpoint, where I must say usually the romances are NOT so high stakes, and many of the ones that are, tend to be poorly received as in bad taste. (Especially in historical romance. Just lots of "uhhh this is probably going to come off really poorly if it's not done super well" and most works are just medium good, which is fine, but maybe not so good if the premise is kind of offensive).

I'm not sure Aral sees Cordelia as an enemy at any point lmao. Also there's more antagonism between Morrolan and Aliera than Morrolan and Vlad lol

All your ships qualify because, to quote from the rules:
Every romantic and/or sexual relationship is eligible, no matter what the characters are to each other in canon. The relationship is just going to be portrayed as enemies to lovers in the fanwork.

Which makes for some fun dynamics to explore by way of alternate canons or AUs. There are a lot of freeforms that would work. :)

Hmm, I think I phrased that badly! It's not that I'm wondering if my ships would be literally mod-kicked out of the exchange - it's more like it made me think about what *I* consider E2L enough for an E2L exchange? So I guess an alternate way to phrase it would be, if we're also talking about AUs, in what ways would you need to change the dynamic of a friends-to-lovers ship in order for them to become E2L enough for you to feel they qualify? So like, would they need to actually hate each other, or be from two countries at war, or would "they're longtime friends who are now competing for the highest grade in the class in a university AU" still work?

Because clearly not ALL (non-AU) ships and ALL fics would work for this, or it would just be a regular ship exchange! There's got to be SOME point at which it crosses over into being "not enemies to lovers," and the poll is mostly about where that point is on various people's individual id axis. Which obviously is going to be different for everybody, and that's what makes it fun to think about!

Ah, okay. Brain's not working.
I picked "any kind of rivalry or antagonism" in your poll, and I was definitely thinking that a lot of the historical freeforms, rivalry, amnesia, being from different countries, etc. and also some of the very low-stakes freeforms would work for characters who are canonically friends. But yes, not necessarily every ship could be enemy-fied, depending on how AU you like to write.

Looking back on it, it's definitely unclear wording, it's not you! ♥ And I appreciate knowing - I don't think I did realize that non-E2L couples could be nominated, although I also hadn't tried. I am also delighted there will be a variety of fic in the exchange. :D

(This is also making me think about AU freeforms. Hmmmm.)

Aww, that's okay. Looking at all the existing nominations, in so far as I know the fandoms, I think a lot of people don't realise that. I mostly just see canon enemies nominated. I like the idea of playing with AUs and alternate canons a lot.

I've nominated bunches that are decidedly not for canon enemies. To my surprise, they were all accepted. :)
Everything from amnesia to sporting rivals, undercover confusion to roleplay as enemies. Should be plenty to pick from for canonical non-enemies.

Well, re: nominations - I would guess that a lot of people in the exchange either mainly ship that dynamic (so those are the only ships they have), or only want those ships for this exchange. Which is basically how I feel - it's nice to know it's an option and I hope everyone who wants that has fun with it, but I'm really not interested in changing a friends-to-lovers dynamic for this, or nominating relationships I could have in a less targeted exchange. I look at this as an opportunity to really let my E2L favorites out to play, and wallow in the E2L dynamic. :D Other people may obviously feel differently, of course, and it's entirely within the rules of the exchange, but I don't think it's a surprise to find mostly enemies to lovers ships in an enemies to lovers exchange.

Edit: Of course you may be right that people simply don't know! I think it'll be a fun exchange, regardless.

Edited 2025-07-12 01:01 (UTC)

The wanting to kill each other part isn't important to me, but a fundamental high-stakes divide is. And they can absolutely stop being antagonists, depending on what exactly the conflict is about, but if that happens it has to be a long, difficult process for them to get there, and they have to struggle with it every step of the way.

"A fundamental high-stakes divide" - YES, I think that's exactly it for me. It needs to be something more basic and fundamental to their sense of self than just a difference of opinion they can talk out and then cheerfully go have lunch together. (Cautiously friendly yet wary lunches while still working on opposing plans are, of course, excellent for the trope.)

I think "strong personal element and/or unhealthy fixation on each other" is indeed what most comes to mind for me as the central tenet of this trope! The kate_beaton_nemesis.jpeg of it all,

I highly approve of your icon. ♥

Inquiring minds wish to know if you have watched Kpop Demon Hunters on Netflix. For Reasons Significant To This Discussion.

I have not but Oh No. (I didn't actually have the foggiest clue what it was about, aside from obviously the description in the title.)

Oh, you are in for a TREAT.

I strongly recommend avoiding spoilers as much as possible. I went into it knowing nothing other than that it was about a Kpop girl group who were also demon hunters (so... basically the title), and it was EXCELLENT.

PUTTING IT ON THE LIST IMMEDIATELY.

My work here is done. :D

So uh, sorry for butting in but the main pairing then would be f/f?

(this isn’t really a spoiler but Rot13 anyway)

Gur znva cnvevat vf zs, naq nyy gur znva srznyr punenpgref ner fubja gb rawbl ybbxvat ng ubg thlf. Gurer’f ab bafperra dhrre ercerfragngvba (ng yrnfg gung V, n pvfurg jbzna, cvpxrq hc ba) - gubhtu bs pbhefr gurer’f nyernql n ybg bs snaneg naq snasvp erpgvslvat gung!

I appreciate the rot13, btw - I'm taking your warning to heart, of knowing absolutely nothing going in, and I want to remain in my current unspoiled state until I watch it! Which probably will happen as soon as I manage to escape the Murderbot vortex in which I am currently dwelling.

Thank you! Ahh, shame. If it‘s not m/m (or something that can turned into it via fanfic) then my interest is zero…

My favourite is when they're on opposite sides of a life-or-death situation, and whether or not they want to personally kill each other, they are completely sure of their position and don't substantially change that, even if they try each other's way for a while. (Professor X/Magneto is formative for me!) Opposite sides of a war works but only they're not divided into super evil and super good - both sides have to have reasons to be there.

But! Any kind of extremely serious rivalry can also work because the personal stakes are so high. Is the world going to be shattered by which sports team wins? No, but the people in the story are!

Yeah, it's high stakes and tension that makes it have the right feeling for me, I think! As mentioned in a comment above, you can have two people who are technically on opposite sides of a conflict, but if there's no real tension there - they simply cooperate for a common cause and don't really feel conflicted about it, say - I wouldn't call it E2L. And I agree with you that I really love E2L-type relationships where both characters are extremely committed to their own side and don't change their allegiance even as their interpersonal feelings for each other might shift. I love that tension of personal feelings vs duty.

Aral/Cordelia that a few people have mentioned is an interesting one for me, because they are technically E2L at the start, but Cordelia is too open-minded to have an "enemy" just because they are on opposite sides, and Aral is so disillusioned with his own side that he's more relieved than anything to be stuck here with his technical enemy. Cordelia would have to be a little more gung-ho about war (or even about saving Barrayar from itself!) and Aral would have to be a little more committed to his own side, with perhaps a less monstrous commander.

Thinking about this, I guess I do make a distinction between enemies-to-lovers (corresponding to the top choice in the poll) and rivals-to-lovers (corresponding to the second), but I like them both, for the same vibe reasons, and would use “enemies to lovers” as a shorthand to include them both.

Yeah, I ended up checking them both because I *do* think they're different, but also hit some of the same basic id features for me, and could reasonably go under the same trope heading. At the same time, as you were commenting above, you could have two characters who are actual enemies - on opposite sides of a war, say - but don't have E2L interactions if they're immediately friendly with each other.

.... oh, that makes me realize that Delenn and Sheridan are another good example of that! They technically are canonical E2L, but they really don't hit any of the beats of an E2L relationship at all - it's completely friends-to-lovers in spite of their people's antagonism.

Haha I was of course thinking of London/G’Kar for B5 (which I only ship platonically but what a E2Friends progression!) and also of Garibaldi and Bester when they had to work together (which I also don’t ship, so as an example of that kind of setup that doesn’t go anywhere). But you’re right that Sheridan/Delenn seems on paper that it should have that flavor and it does not to me. Which actually made me wonder if it’s an artifact of Sheridan being a later substitution for Sinclair. Not that Sinclair and Delenn are enemies either but there’s a more fraught and sinister tone to the interactions between Minbari and humans that first season. So it’s almost like Sheridan steps into a partially completed E2L arc, when Delenn has already gotten to know some humans and undertaken the transformation. And because he has to match her place in the arc, he’s just this cheerful guy excited about orange juice There are occasional reminders of his Black Star past but it’s like sitcom-level “…Awkward” moments I feel like, not played for real conflict.

Yeah, Londo and G'Kar are absolutely my ideal of an E2whatever arc; it's amazing. :D But yeah, Bester and Garibaldi were another one I was thinking about, because they definitely hit the beats if you're into hatesex - and I've seen them tagged as a pairing on AO3, so it's something some people want! - but for me it's too much of the unredeemed enemies aspect to actually ship it (especially with the brainwashing later; I think I could potentially have wanted it before season four, but that's a level of fucked-upedness that simply doesn't work for me in a ship or even a reluctant-allies context, at least if canon doesn't do some of the repairwork for me beforehand, like it does with Londo and G'Kar...)

But yeah, you have a really great point about Sheridan stepping into an already started E2L arc! And Delenn and Sinclair do hit the E2L beats much more squarely, although they're already friends when we meet them, but we also see the flashbacks to Delenn being involved with capturing and torturing him, and as you say, things are more uneasy in season one, and we see a lot of early trust-building. Whereas Sheridan, yeah, he steps into the arc when it's already started, so there isn't really time to do a full run, he just has to pick up the beat where Sinclair would have. That's so interesting to think about!

Edited (clarifying a few things) 2025-07-10 08:02 (UTC)

I like my E2L as opposite sides of a war or similar life-and-death conflict, but I don't necessarily need personal antagonism as well, so I happily count Aral/ Cordelia or Ewen/Keith as enemies to lovers ships, so that I can roll around in things like duty vs emotions and personal liking vs loathing what they stand for and tasty things like that. I like other kinds of E2L too, but that one's a favourite.

Ahahaha ironically I was JUST commenting above that Aral/Cordelia is one that doesn't really ping that way for me! But I think it is really down to Vibes in a lot of cases - it's not a question with a right or wrong answer, and what personally moves the needle is going to be different for different people.

(What is Ewen/Keith from?)

Flight of the Heron, by DK Broster, one of those books I have spent the last thirty years pushing under people's noses if they show the slightest sign of liking h/c and enemies-to-lovers, it's set in Scotland in 1745 and Ewen and Keith are respectively a Jacobite clan chieftain and an English army officer. They both are taken prisoner by the other at various points and also both faint into the other's arms at least once...

I ticked the top two boxes (plus I know it when I see it) because I don't think it necessarily has to have life or death stakes, but to me they have to have enough animosity that they would actually define themselves as enemies, you know? Not just "ugh, I don't particularly like that guy" or "we're RIVALS and she's a WORTHY OPPONENT." Opposite sides of a conflict is one way to achieve it, personal animosity is another, and of course one can have both together, but to me they have to start out sufficiently opposed that "enemies" doesn't feel hyperbolic.

I looked at that exchange and went, nope, sports rivalries and antagonism do NOT fall into that trope. In my mind. Which makes the „proper“
Enemies to lovers pairings rare/complicated. Mine are mostly in rare fandoms, none of which are nominated at all…

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Enemies to lovers

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Babylon 5 spoilers (shocking I know)

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