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Some more scattered Babylon 5 thoughts
I haven't rewatched more B5, but I was watching various early episodes earlier this week for vid clipping purposes, and I'm still thinking about that.
I mentioned in the previous post that watching early episodes makes me notice how well the foreshadowing is set up. It's pure coincidence that Londo's arc is the one that never really had to deal with any major actor swaps or other broad changes, but it makes me realize how meticulous the planning and groundwork for it was, even in season one. (And probably some of the others, is the thing - it's just that Londo's arc is the one where all, or at least most, of the early groundwork got to play out fully.)
For example, Delenn isn't as much of a major player in Londo's storyline as G'Kar and Vir are, but she still gets a clearly defined arc with him. It's definitely significant that Delenn and Londo are the people who go to Epsilon 3 with Draal, and Draal bringing up the Third Principle of Sentient Life directly regarding Londo (the capacity for self-sacrifice). Delenn is the person who hears Londo's brief speech about wanting to die on his feet, doing something brave and noble - and she'll be the person he sacrifices his life for, 20 years later, exactly like that, except neither of them knows it yet.
It's just such a beautifully meticulous string of dominoes being laid with them, knowing now in the early episodes where they end up. I knew just enough of Londo's eventual outcome to appreciate that to an extent when I watched "A Voice in the Wilderness" the first time, but knowing now how directly his self-sacrificial death relates to Delenn, specifically, it's really wonderful to see how the groundwork is laid there, as well as with some of the season 2-3 Delenn and Londo scenes: the way the two of them swing very far apart while he's working with the Shadows, even Lennier's regret in season 3 about having risked his life to save Londo's. (Which pays off much later in ways they could never have known then.)
I love the care and detail with which each of his major relationships was built up from start to finish (Londo and Delenn, Londo and Vir, Londo and G'Kar).
...
This is more just kinda something I was thinking about than directly related to episodes I rewatched, but it occurred to me that the Cartagia arc - early season 4 - is the part of the series where Londo and Vir actually become friends. There's definitely caring between them earlier, and protectiveness (mutual even, it's really interesting how Vir blames himself for letting G'Kar into Londo's quarters in the Dust episode, even though as Londo points out there was really nothing he could have done) but I feel like there's an equality between them in the Cartagia arc that they've never really had before, or could have had before. In season one, their dynamic was far too unequal for actual friendship - Vir is much too tentative, Londo is far too awful to him, the awareness of the social/hierarchical gap between them is too huge. Then in season 2-3 there's the Shadow situation pushing them in opposite directions, as much as Vir still clearly does have probably more loyalty to Londo than Londo deserves.
But in the pressure cooker of Cartagia's court, they're both on more-or-less equal footing for perhaps the first time ever, and there's a lot more, I guess, open emotional intimacy between them than they've ever had before. Vir hiding his face against Londo's shoulder when they're having to watch G'Kar being whipped, and Londo physically keeps himself between Vir and Cartagia during that scene ... and later on there's the conversation they have when Vir is drunk (Londo actually managing to be comforting for a change, making one of his asymptotic approaches and near-misses with apology), and the two of them holding onto each other when the Shadow ship shows up, and of course the hug at the end. They come out of that whole thing so much closer than they went into it.
This makes me regret that they never really get a lot of interaction in the show after Cartagia, aside from a few moments here and there. They have some lovely scenes in "The Long Night of Londo Mollari" and then Londo handing off the ambassadorial duties in late season five is also really nice, but there really is an absolute dearth of scenes for them otherwise. We very rarely see them hanging out in Londo's quarters like we did in earlier seasons. (Vir himself isn't in the show very much from the end of the Cartagia arc onward, which is really too bad. I would happily have had a little less Byron in season five and a little more Vir ...)
I mentioned in the previous post that watching early episodes makes me notice how well the foreshadowing is set up. It's pure coincidence that Londo's arc is the one that never really had to deal with any major actor swaps or other broad changes, but it makes me realize how meticulous the planning and groundwork for it was, even in season one. (And probably some of the others, is the thing - it's just that Londo's arc is the one where all, or at least most, of the early groundwork got to play out fully.)
For example, Delenn isn't as much of a major player in Londo's storyline as G'Kar and Vir are, but she still gets a clearly defined arc with him. It's definitely significant that Delenn and Londo are the people who go to Epsilon 3 with Draal, and Draal bringing up the Third Principle of Sentient Life directly regarding Londo (the capacity for self-sacrifice). Delenn is the person who hears Londo's brief speech about wanting to die on his feet, doing something brave and noble - and she'll be the person he sacrifices his life for, 20 years later, exactly like that, except neither of them knows it yet.
It's just such a beautifully meticulous string of dominoes being laid with them, knowing now in the early episodes where they end up. I knew just enough of Londo's eventual outcome to appreciate that to an extent when I watched "A Voice in the Wilderness" the first time, but knowing now how directly his self-sacrificial death relates to Delenn, specifically, it's really wonderful to see how the groundwork is laid there, as well as with some of the season 2-3 Delenn and Londo scenes: the way the two of them swing very far apart while he's working with the Shadows, even Lennier's regret in season 3 about having risked his life to save Londo's. (Which pays off much later in ways they could never have known then.)
I love the care and detail with which each of his major relationships was built up from start to finish (Londo and Delenn, Londo and Vir, Londo and G'Kar).
...
This is more just kinda something I was thinking about than directly related to episodes I rewatched, but it occurred to me that the Cartagia arc - early season 4 - is the part of the series where Londo and Vir actually become friends. There's definitely caring between them earlier, and protectiveness (mutual even, it's really interesting how Vir blames himself for letting G'Kar into Londo's quarters in the Dust episode, even though as Londo points out there was really nothing he could have done) but I feel like there's an equality between them in the Cartagia arc that they've never really had before, or could have had before. In season one, their dynamic was far too unequal for actual friendship - Vir is much too tentative, Londo is far too awful to him, the awareness of the social/hierarchical gap between them is too huge. Then in season 2-3 there's the Shadow situation pushing them in opposite directions, as much as Vir still clearly does have probably more loyalty to Londo than Londo deserves.
But in the pressure cooker of Cartagia's court, they're both on more-or-less equal footing for perhaps the first time ever, and there's a lot more, I guess, open emotional intimacy between them than they've ever had before. Vir hiding his face against Londo's shoulder when they're having to watch G'Kar being whipped, and Londo physically keeps himself between Vir and Cartagia during that scene ... and later on there's the conversation they have when Vir is drunk (Londo actually managing to be comforting for a change, making one of his asymptotic approaches and near-misses with apology), and the two of them holding onto each other when the Shadow ship shows up, and of course the hug at the end. They come out of that whole thing so much closer than they went into it.
This makes me regret that they never really get a lot of interaction in the show after Cartagia, aside from a few moments here and there. They have some lovely scenes in "The Long Night of Londo Mollari" and then Londo handing off the ambassadorial duties in late season five is also really nice, but there really is an absolute dearth of scenes for them otherwise. We very rarely see them hanging out in Londo's quarters like we did in earlier seasons. (Vir himself isn't in the show very much from the end of the Cartagia arc onward, which is really too bad. I would happily have had a little less Byron in season five and a little more Vir ...)
no subject
What's impressive then is how organic it feels, which is as much of a tribute to Peter Jurasik as to JMS, but it could have been so precision-tooled as to feel airless and it just doesn't. Londo is one of the most living characters on the show. Kind of a benchmark for TV in general, frankly.
But in the pressure cooker of Cartagia's court, they're both on more-or-less equal footing for perhaps the first time ever, and there's a lot more, I guess, open emotional intimacy between them than they've ever had before.
And Londo has needed Vir before, emotionally, practically, but he has never more than fleetingly acknowledged it, which makes just the fact of his asking for help from Vir specifically a huge leveling. It's all cascading into "The Long Night of Londo Mollari"—so beautifully that it's bizarre to imagine a version of the show in which that episode does not exist—but so much of Londo in Season 4 comes back to making the choice to open himself up, however awkwardly or ineffectually, which is then naturally intertangled with his attempt to get back over his moral event horizon because he closed so much of himself off to make all of those decisions that led to the Shadows over Centauri Prime. He has to ask for help and know he might not get it for a hundred self-inflicted reasons, cf. G'Kar's quarters in "No Surrender, No Retreat." He gets it from Vir without hesitation, but once he's got Vir as a partner in this enterprise, he treats him like one. It doesn't even seem to be a decision. He's just broken down that barrier and on the other side of it turns out to be really caring about Vir. "I never wanted you in that hall."
They have some lovely scenes in "The Long Night of Londo Mollari" and then Londo handing off the ambassadorial duties in late season five is also really nice, but there really is an absolute dearth of scenes for them otherwise.
And the ones they have together in Season 5 are so good! "No, I just need to borrow this for a minute, I'll be right back."
I would happily have had a little less Byron in season five and a little more Vir ...
AMEN.
no subject
Yes! It's meticulously crafted, and yet, the character breathes and grows and never feels like he's being forced into a particular mold. Even my complaints about his storyline in late season five are about the other characters, not Londo. His every choice feels completely, devastatingly in character, even throughout the parts when you want to shake him and yell, "Londo, don't do it!" He lives and grows and falls and it's all very natural-feeling even as he hews to an overall predetermined track. Just brilliant writing. I can see why (as you said elsewhere) Peter Jurasik considered it the role of a lifetime.
so much of Londo in Season 4 comes back to making the choice to open himself up, however awkwardly or ineffectually, which is then naturally intertangled with his attempt to get back over his moral event horizon because he closed so much of himself off to make all of those decisions that led to the Shadows over Centauri Prime
*scream* Yes, this! The closeness that he eventually gets in late season four/season five (and this is also a post I've been thinking about; he's just so loved in season five by those dear to him) is something he earns. It's interesting to contrast this with how relatively easily he reached out for connection in season two/early season three, when everyone was rebuffing him for perfectly good reasons. Now the thing that makes it hard is that he realizes how profoundly he fucked up and how justifiably difficult it's going to be to get anyone to trust him again. And as you point out, opening himself up also means opening himself up to the emotional consequences of all the decisions he made in seasons two and three, which is going to come very close to literally killing him with guilt in season five.
But he does. Even when you can see him fighting past shame and nervousness and fear of rejection. In season two, he would rather become a monster than be humiliated; he'd rather leave first than be left. In season four he fights his way past the fear of humiliation and rejection again and again, and starts to win back what he lost, and then some.
Rewatching that scene at the end of the Cartagia arc when Vir hugs him, and he makes that little speech about how he never gets to be happy for even a night without the universe snatching it away from him. Leaving aside his wallowing in self-pity, it's true that he's mostly miserable for the first three seasons. But from mid season four onward until things fall apart in late season five, he's really, truly happy. He has friends, and a cause he believes in, and little victories that mean a lot to him. As much as karma will extract a steep cost in blood later, he gets to have that, and he has it because he clawed his way back from the darkness he fell into.
"No, I just need to borrow this for a minute, I'll be right back."
I love that so much. VIR!!
no subject
Totally write this post; I'll just show up in your comments and scream.
It's interesting to contrast this with how relatively easily he reached out for connection in season two/early season three, when everyone was rebuffing him for perfectly good reasons. Now the thing that makes it hard is that he realizes how profoundly he fucked up and how justifiably difficult it's going to be to get anyone to trust him again.
Yes! It's sort of the slow-burn version of turning back toward G'Kar in the Zocalo, all the rougher because it can't be gotten over with in one courage-screwed moment: he has to keep making the choice, showing up, doing the work, and you're right that he's rewarded for it beyond what he started with, as if we're watching him grow into the person he was always meant to be, except he would never have become this person except by the meandering, terrible route of lost time and atrocity. He's so much deeper even than the Londo who knew he might not come back from Epsilon III. It doesn't even feel like irony.
he's really, truly happy. He has friends, and a cause he believes in, and little victories that mean a lot to him. As much as karma will extract a steep cost in blood later, he gets to have that, and he has it because he clawed his way back from the darkness he fell into.
Or I could just start screaming now.