Babylon 5 5x17-18

[sholio]

Watch Babylon 5, she said. It will be fun, she said.


How is it that the show can tell you exactly where Londo's storyline is going and then it finally gets there and it's just a knife right in the heart?

That last goodbye with him and G'Kar, especially - he can't tell him anything, he can't tell him why, all he can do is try to minimize the damage he's afraid he's going to do to burn that relationship down in the future (as far as he knows, G'Kar is going to hate him sufficiently to kill him 15 years from now; he STILL DOESN'T KNOW THE DETAILS). And then openly pushing his friends away, because he needs them as alienated as possible so they're not in danger (except they have no idea why he's doing it, just that he's gone completely cold and he's burning down the Centauri's chance of connecting again with the Alliance). And Londo walking alone across the empty courtyard, and that last shot of him alone on the throne (except terribly not alone) - _good god_.

The show straight up tells you it's going to be a tragedy from mid season three and it's still a shot straight to the heart!

I can't really imagine what the last four episodes are going to be - I feel like the show for me wraps up here. I mean, considering that we do know the broad strokes of the details from the flash-forward in season three, I guess I can look up fanfic now without fear of spoilers, at least for the Narn-Centauri set of characters.

(It also rips my heart out that we don't even get the potential of Londo bonding with the other characters in the remaining 15 years we know he lives - he's got to hold them at arm's length for their own safety, and while they'll probably run into each other for political reasons over the years, he's got to play cold whenever he's around them to stop them from finding out what's going on or getting too close. GAAAAAAAAAAAHH. I like to think he'll get some small moments of joy and connection now and then anyway - he's told that his time will mostly be his own when the Drakh don't need him to do something for them - but AUGH.)

Apart from the emotional devastation of it all - I enjoyed Franklin and Lyta's trip to the Drazi homeworld (although what they found wasn't at all what I expected them to find; I still thought they were going to find out about the Drakh and I couldn't believe they didn't! (Although the Shadow tech still being around is interesting.) I'm obviously relieved and delighted the Centauri actually did rescue Delenn. Londo rescuing G'Kar during the bombardment of Centauri Prime was DELIGHTFUL.

And I'm glad I know the full arc of Londo's storyline now. It's devastating and tragic and breaks my heart, and I didn't want it to go there but it went exactly where it needed to go. And now I will be merrily contemplating fixits, because I think I need them to cope ...

Comments

[sovay]

Thank you so much for giving me an audience for those at a time when I couldn't post them publicly, btw!

Thank you for letting me be the audience! I just couldn't give you proper feedback at the time!

Also, I have mostly stopped worrying about spoilers at this point; I know that there are three more episodes on B5 to wrap things up, one future episode to close off the series, and a ton of interstitial canon like movies and tie-in books.

I have deeply mixed feelings about Peter David's Centauri trilogy despite their official canonicity, but it does contribute some elements I accept and a couple I even like. I look forward to your variations.

I mean, like. I am interested in what happens on Babylon 5, seeing how everyone else's storylines close out, etc. But it really was Londo and G'Kar where my heart was located.

*hugs*fistbumps*

(I do care quite a bit about Vir.)

Here, for the record, are all of my feelings about the Regent of Centauri Prime, the actual factual first character for whom I wrote fic—an isolated incident until 2011—and about whom I couldn't say much either for spoiler-related reasons.

Thanks to the original broadcast schedule, there were four months between "Movements of Fire and Shadow" and "The Fall of Centauri Prime," which turned a terrible cliffhanger into a full-body wrecking ball. I keep forgetting that there are any Alliance scenes in the first half of the episode, because in my memory it's one continuous sequence from the blast wave of the initial bombardment to Londo in the last free seconds of his life refusing to give the Drakh a flicker of satisfaction even as his Keeper takes root. The second half I find almost too painful to watch. G'Kar's formal salute of Londo—because there's so much behind it—is about the only thing that doesn't hurt worse. If they hadn't had their last unobserved conversation, I'd have eaten my TV screen.

[sholio]

Here, for the record, are all of my feelings about the Regent of Centauri Prime, the actual factual first character for whom I wrote fic—an isolated incident until 2011—and about whom I couldn't say much either for spoiler-related reasons.

Thank you; I will go read it! (I must have skipped over that as not relevant to my interests at the time; little did I realize.)

Thanks to the original broadcast schedule, there were four months between "Movements of Fire and Shadow" and "The Fall of Centauri Prime," which turned a terrible cliffhanger into a full-body wrecking ball.

Oh NO. Honestly I can't even imagine the gut punch that watching this completely unspoiled would have been. At least knowing a little of Londo's ending (aside from having osmosed incorrectly was that he was being puppeted by Shadows, I at least got the gist of it) I was able to prepare myself emotionally beforehand. At least to a degree, anyway - it turns out that knowing about it definitely did not prepare me for the actual effect of seeing all of it unfold on my screen, but at least I didn't go into it completely cold, let alone after a four-month wait!

The second half I find almost too painful to watch. G'Kar's formal salute of Londo—because there's so much behind it—is about the only thing that doesn't hurt worse. If they hadn't had their last unobserved conversation, I'd have eaten my TV screen.

I know, all of that hurt so much I could hardly bear it. But I agree that the final salute from G'Kar and Londo's bow in return is lovely. (And also yet another echo, as it reflects G'Kar's goodbye with Delenn a couple of episodes ago, his salute to her returned by her heart-touch, each person expressing their respect and affection in the gestures of their culture.) As we've talked about on recent posts, G'Kar's incredibly hard-won affinity for Londo is extremely hard to shake off once it's settled in - Londo being an asshole in the council chambers didn't even dent it, and Londo apparently taking up the reins of Centauri power with full intention to wield it with a heavy hand isn't a death knell for their friendship. (And apparently never is, since it's clear that the love and loyalty is still there, fifteen years from now, whatever happens in between.)

And I spent the middle part of the episode, once it becomes clear where it's going, in an absolute agony of "oh, please let him and G'Kar have one more scene before he gets that thing in his head" - I had some idea from gifs/vaguely osmosed spoilers that they had some kind of goodbye, I desperately wanted it to be with Londo still free, and it was ... his absolute last act as a free man, in fact. "I do not know why it matters to me now" - words with more meaning than G'Kar has the context to understand, he's rapidly running out of time and this may be the last thing he ever gets to do solely as himself. But it does matter, he needs to have some kind of last connection with G'Kar before he ceases, potentially, to be himself. The terror and pain that's visible in him throughout that scene, which G'Kar can't understand, but clearly he recognizes at least some of it anyway. And the depth of emotion in that final conversation, G'Kar's forgiveness, the Centauri arm clasp, the way they hold each other's gaze for a last long moment and you can see Londo visibly having to tear himself away.

(He died on his feet, doing something noble and brave, but not futile.)

[sovay]

(I must have skipped over that as not relevant to my interests at the time; little did I realize.)

This show has a way of welding itself to a person's interests. Statistically there must have been indifferent viewers, but my father who got me into this show is still rabid about it three decades later. I mentioned your current location to him and he commented with tactful understatement, "The fifth season is rough."

Oh NO. Honestly I can't even imagine the gut punch that watching this completely unspoiled would have been.

Just imagine a comic panel reading BLAMMO and one of those little spirals of cinderized dust drifting up afterward.

(I actually have a very distinct memory of its images seen for the first time on my family's television, especially for whatever reason that terribly small figure of Londo crossing the empty, tolling courtyard to his inauguration alone—the isolationist symbol the Drakh require of him, but would it have been better to endure the presence of witnesses? It isn't a celebration, the last bars of his future closing around him. There's already no way out, but he still has to walk to meet it and he does, all the memories of his life fresh in his mind. There's still so much of him in there. There'll be enough at the end, but he doesn't know it.)

The terror and pain that's visible in him throughout that scene, which G'Kar can't understand, but clearly he recognizes at least some of it anyway.

Yes. He knows Londo too well not to guess something, no matter how carefully Londo is trying not to endanger him with the knowledge. One of the reasons I believe in your future fic is that I cannot actually imagine G'Kar going fifteen years without figuring out what was up, since he clearly comprehends that something is.

And the depth of emotion in that final conversation, G'Kar's forgiveness, the Centauri arm clasp, the way they hold each other's gaze for a last long moment and you can see Londo visibly having to tear himself away.

So much yes. There's too much to say for a last time and they manage to say all of the important things. And I love that it is specifically the Centauri arm-clasp which Londo reaches for and G'Kar returns without a false start or a second thought, as if he'd been making the gesture all his life. In synch, still.

(He died on his feet, doing something noble and brave, but not futile.)

(He did.)

*hugs*

[sholio]

*hugs*

I can see how that visual would be seared into your mind's eye even after all these years. Oh, Londo.

he still has to walk to meet it and he does, all the memories of his life fresh in his mind. There's still so much of him in there. There'll be enough at the end, but he doesn't know it.

LONDO.

He knows Londo too well not to guess something, no matter how carefully Londo is trying not to endanger him with the knowledge. One of the reasons I believe in your future fic is that I cannot actually imagine G'Kar going fifteen years without figuring out what was up, since he clearly comprehends that something is.

Yes! I absolutely refuse to believe that G'Kar could not recognize something was very deeply wrong with the sudden turnaround from "where he goes, I go," from Londo refusing to step aside for the guards and refusing to leave the cell and risking his life to drag him out of the rubble under the palace - to "It wouldn't be appropriate" and "I may not see you again." And he clearly recognizes the seriousness of the situation. He just knows Londo too well by now not to be able to read that something is wrong in every interaction.

The other person who has got to notice almost immediately that something's up with Londo is Vir. I just do not buy that between the two of them, they couldn't figure out some part of it fairly quickly, even if it's just to realize that Londo is being somehow blackmailed or otherwise controlled.

There's too much to say for a last time and they manage to say all of the important things. And I love that it is specifically the Centauri arm-clasp which Londo reaches for and G'Kar returns without a false start or a second thought, as if he'd been making the gesture all his life. In synch, still.

Yes, yes. And it means so much that G'Kar recognizes instantly that the Centauri greeting/farewell is what Londo is going for and what he needs in that moment (which is also another sign that nothing is right).

If this has to be their last meaningful conversation in canon, it's a doozy of one.

[sovay]

He just knows Londo too well by now not to be able to read that something is wrong in every interaction.

Londo's farewells are too final. G'Kar has to know what that looks like.

The other person who has got to notice almost immediately that something's up with Londo is Vir. I just do not buy that between the two of them, they couldn't figure out some part of it fairly quickly, even if it's just to realize that Londo is being somehow blackmailed or otherwise controlled.

Yes! And once you get to blackmail or any other form of coercion, the threat to Centauri Prime should follow naturally since almost nothing else at this point would force Londo's hand. He is completely unembarrassable on the world stage. The lives of his friends are the only other leverage that could be held over him and it's why he's pushing everyone out to arm's length. (And behind the scenes, Londo pleading with the Drakh to be allowed to save Delenn's life. She does get rescued. We don't know what he had to pay for it.)

And it means so much that G'Kar recognizes instantly that the Centauri greeting/farewell is what Londo is going for and what he needs in that moment (which is also another sign that nothing is right).

Yes! Augh.

If this has to be their last meaningful conversation in canon, it's a doozy of one.

It is. (I just refuse to accept it as their last meaningful conversation.)

[sholio]

(And behind the scenes, Londo pleading with the Drakh to be allowed to save Delenn's life. She does get rescued. We don't know what he had to pay for it.)

Yes! That broke my heart. Especially since he did get what he was so desperate to get - and then had to play the heavy with Sheridan, so Sheridan and Delenn believe that he granted only grudgingly what he begged and sacrificed for.

I just refuse to accept it as their last meaningful conversation.

As do I, now and forever. If nothing else, in that last scene with Londo and G'Kar in season three, G'Kar isn't surprised by the sight of the Keeper, so he clearly found out about it at some point between now and then. I just like to think it was on the slightly earlier rather than the endgame side of things.

[sovay]

Yes! That broke my heart. Especially since he did get what he was so desperate to get - and then had to play the heavy with Sheridan, so Sheridan and Delenn believe that he granted only grudgingly what he begged and sacrificed for.

Past the ground-level nope nope nope fuck nope of Drakh control, so much of what makes it Londo's particular hell is that he had finally gotten out of playing that role—the doubling-down Londo of the Shadow War, throwing his weight around for the honor of Centauri Prime even when he knew that his beloved homeworld was in the wrong. And now he's forced back into it, not for the honor of his people, but for their survival, and it is the last way he wants to be especially with these people he loves. Peter Jurasik should have left this series with several Emmys before its final season, but just for his almost subcutaneous communication of a Londo who is no longer completely himself, just hand him another one and leave me to emotionally decompensate.

If nothing else, in that last scene with Londo and G'Kar in season three, G'Kar isn't surprised by the sight of the Keeper, so he clearly found out about it at some point between now and then. I just like to think it was on the slightly earlier rather than the endgame side of things.

My preference also.

[sholio]

Also! Because I'm still thinking about this, and G'Kar knowing Londo well enough to notice that things are very badly wrong, even if he doesn't know the exact nature of it ...

From the time that Londo actively refuses to comply with the arrest order, through the time he's staying in the cell with G'Kar, he's actively choosing G'Kar over his own people, his own world, his duty. He might rationalize the cell as the best place for him to be, but it is a rationalization; even he must realize that. He's there because of G'Kar. He knows it and G'Kar knows it, and as he gets increasingly torn about it towards the end - but still won't change his mind - it's G'Kar who forces him out (using the most "bratty 8-year-old in the backseat of Mom's car" tactics that I have ever seen on a sci-fi show before). But G'Kar knows that's what he's doing and he knows that for Londo's own good, Londo needs to be pushed in the direction of choosing his people's welfare over G'Kar's, because Londo will never forgive himself if he could have done something to help his people and didn't.

But the turnaround in just a few hours from taking G'Kar's side over his whole world, to sending G'Kar away, absolutely cannot have been lost on G'Kar.

(Also I'm now realizing that there's a symmetry between Londo choosing G'Kar over his own world, openly and repeatedly, as some of his last free choices in the 24 hours before his Drakhening ... and G'Kar choosing Londo - over his world, his people, his own life - 15 years from now. Because this show is made of pain.)

[sovay]

From the time that Londo actively refuses to comply with the arrest order, through the time he's staying in the cell with G'Kar, he's actively choosing G'Kar over his own people, his own world, his duty.

Yes!! And it's very clear in hindsight that he would not have been allowed to halt the war no matter what, but he's out of the action for an acknowledged three days before it is drastically borne in on him that he has to get back into it—it's not a token protest. "You picked a terrible time in your social evolution to develop principles" is both classic G'Kar snark and honestly kind of true.

it's G'Kar who forces him out (using the most "bratty 8-year-old in the backseat of Mom's car" tactics that I have ever seen on a sci-fi show before).

The ability of this show to find time in the midst of a slo-mo trainwreck of a wrenching tragedy for a hilariously gross hold-my-beer moment is truly unparalleled.

But the turnaround in just a few hours from taking G'Kar's side over his whole world, to sending G'Kar away, absolutely cannot have been lost on G'Kar.

I really think that is some of what's behind the farewell salute, that recognition: G'Kar can't quite read it and Londo can't explain it, but they both know it's there.

(Also I'm now realizing that there's a symmetry between Londo choosing G'Kar over his own world, openly and repeatedly, as some of his last free choices in the 24 hours before his Drakhening ... and G'Kar choosing Londo - over his world, his people, his own life - 15 years from now. Because this show is made of pain.)

THANKS FOR POINTING THAT OUT.

[sholio]

I really think that is some of what's behind the farewell salute, that recognition: G'Kar can't quite read it and Londo can't explain it, but they both know it's there.

Honestly I think one of the things that surprised me about where the show went in season five was that, while I was fully expecting a turnaround to affection and loyalty that would set up what we already saw in season three, I absolutely did not expect the show to go as deep as it went with the two of them openly and obviously loving each other. I was expecting something a little more ambiguous and uneasy, but at least as of the last few episodes pre-Drakh, it really isn't. They might still bicker, jab verbal barbs at each other, and sometimes very genuinely fight and hurt each other. But they also would very visibly and demonstrably die for each other, sacrifice for each other, and choose each other over everything else that has been important to them throughout the series.

I did poke at the fic on AO3 a little bit after season 3 (once we knew their eventual outcome, basically - this was around the time I was writing the fics I sent you, and for the same reason, because after the mid-season-3 flash-forward I was desperately craving something other than the enmity they had in canon at that point). And one thing I discovered was that a particular category of fixit AU exists which is basically G'Kar staying on as Londo's bodyguard in a Drakh-free world in which Londo is a much less dysfunctional flavor of emperor, presiding over a less dystopic Centauri Prime.

I remember at the time thinking this was unfair fanon for G'Kar - basically fans shoehorning him into Londo's life in a way that was a departure from what the character would have chosen, apart from what I had assumed was a MUCH shorter duration as his bodyguard in canon (and also assumed there was some ulterior motive for it).

... but no!! He goes voluntarily! He would have stayed! Londo has to literally tell him no in order to make him leave. He would have stayed, happily, surrounded by the ancestral enemies that he's spent his whole life hating, protecting one of those enemies. He ended up physically on the other side of another war with the Narn - not precisely participating on the other side, but protecting the Emperor-elect of their enemies. He did it because he wanted to and because Londo needed him, and he would have kept doing it straight through peacetime if he had been able to. And we've already talked about Londo's side of this.

Their relationship never could fail to have a slightly uneasy side because of the history between their people, and them personally; as in the Na'Toth episode, they would always be in danger of stumbling into hidden traps and pitfalls, and having to work through the emotional fallout from it. But I figured canon was going to give me hints and I would have to read full-blown love into it. I didn't expect this. The only thing they don't do is use the actual word. But it's all very visibly there on the screen.

[sovay]

They might still bicker, jab verbal barbs at each other, and sometimes very genuinely fight and hurt each other. But they also would very visibly and demonstrably die for each other, sacrifice for each other, and choose each other over everything else that has been important to them throughout the series.

Yes. The signal underneath the noise, even if the noise is itself an important component of their relationship. (It's clear even before either of them would identify it as such that stupid arguments are one of their love languages.) By the end it's unbreakable. And that sort of bond does not just drift with distance or time.

And one thing I discovered was that a particular category of fixit AU exists which is basically G'Kar staying on as Londo's bodyguard in a Drakh-free world in which Londo is a much less dysfunctional flavor of emperor, presiding over a less dystopic Centauri Prime.

I can absolutely see why a reader would want that. The tragedy is brilliant, but God damn, Londo with G'Kar as a court fixture would have been one of the great Emperors of Centauri Prime, the right one even for the moment of rebuilding. He had to put himself back together. Both of them did.

He would have stayed, happily, surrounded by the ancestral enemies that he's spent his whole life hating, protecting one of those enemies. He ended up physically on the other side of another war with the Narn - not precisely participating on the other side, but protecting the Emperor-elect of their enemies. He did it because he wanted to and because Londo needed him, and he would have kept doing it straight through peacetime if he had been able to.

Yes! Basically just yes. And continuing to work on his book all the while.

Their relationship never could fail to have a slightly uneasy side because of the history between their people, and them personally; as in the Na'Toth episode, they would always be in danger of stumbling into hidden traps and pitfalls, and having to work through the emotional fallout from it.

(Which I would trust them to do, as often as it happened.)

But I figured canon was going to give me hints and I would have to read full-blown love into it. I didn't expect this. The only thing they don't do is use the actual word. But it's all very visibly there on the screen.

It's there in those last exchanges of looks, if everything else flew over the viewer's head. But I really did have the anything-dar of a rock in high school and I had seen it.

[sholio]

It's clear even before either of them would identify it as such that stupid arguments are one of their love languages.

Yes! And that's also on display in their goodbye scene with "I'm a better person" / "You ingrate!" Sometimes the way you thank someone for saving your life is not with words but by poking at them to make them snap back and laugh when they look like they're about to fracture down the middle.

By the end it's unbreakable. And that sort of bond does not just drift with distance or time.

YES. In all of it, for all the tragedy of the way it ended up, we (and they) always have that. Fifteen years apart - and presumably, fifteen years of Londo becoming increasingly erratic and tyrannical and driving his world into a flaming trash pit - couldn't shatter their bond or shake G'Kar's willingness to give up everything for Londo, one final time.

Londo with G'Kar as a court fixture would have been one of the great Emperors of Centauri Prime, the right one even for the moment of rebuilding. He had to put himself back together. Both of them did.

He would! Canon is what canon is, and their tragedy is beautifully written and thematically solid. (Even if I have a few quibbles along the way with the rest of the cast allowing it to unfold.) But part of the tragedy is how truly *good* at ruling his world Londo could have been, after all he's been through and all he's learned. Especially with G'Kar around to be his conscience and his rock, he could have built new bridges between Narn and Centauri, and forged his world into a rightful part of the Alliance once again, and a more peaceful and freer place than it has ever been. As it is, Vir will have to do it. But Londo was fully capable of it. Season one Londo could never; season five Londo absolutely could have, and would have loved doing it. He just didn't get the chance.

Also, G'Kar would absolutely have enjoyed helping him do that. I think another thing I didn't anticipate at this point in canon is that G'Kar really has nowhere to be and nothing he wants to do, so he might as well find new purpose in helping the Centauri rebuild, to annoy them and watch Londo's back. Who knows how a couple of decades on-and-off Centauri Prime would have changed him, and them.

(Which I would trust them to do, as often as it happened.)

Yes!

It's there in those last exchanges of looks, if everything else flew over the viewer's head.

The way they both hold each other's gaze as long as they can, until Londo has to visibly tear himself away to go toward, effectively, his execution. My heart.

[sovay]

(word choice and adding thoughts, as always)

Look, I'm just co-signing this entire comment and then going off to cry in my fictitious beer.