Babylon 5 5x05-08

[sholio]

So much for slowing down. Onwards!



.... Onwards towards DOOM, that is. And it's interesting how many of these episodes have had a general air of Oncoming Doom hanging over them, even when things are generally pretty good.

I don't really like Sheridan and Lochley turning out to have a sexual history, but oh well. At least Delenn got over her jealousy pretty quickly? (Also: cannot believe when I wrote my missing scenes for 5x02, the one other person besides Londo that I decided to have her interact with as a stranger is the one person she actually knew before B5, although I reread that and I think it reads okay even with the additional context, since they work hard at being publicly formal with each other.)

One of the handful of things I knew about season 5 is that G'Kar ends up as Londo's bodyguard in this season (I'd seen a couple of clips beforehand), but I had no idea how it happened, and I didn't expect it to be Delenn's idea, or to happen this early!

Delenn walking away GIGGLING after she inflicts Londo on his new bodyguard, I just cannot even with that scene.





They're all so cute! I'm really loving the Delenn-Londo-G'Kar triad in general this season (and at the end of last one). She loves these two idiots, she really does.

I predictably loved the Bester episode. I love that we got some closure on the Bester-Garibaldi-Sheridan plot from last season (namely, Garibaldi having to be locked up in the brig to stop him from giving Bester the beatdown of his life).

I had completely forgotten about Lyta being modified by the Vorlons until that came up in the telepath plot - I wasn't expecting anything about that to be revisited now that the Vorlons are gone, but we got that and also Kosh's message from the other side to Sheridan (typically cryptic).

The "Day of the Dead" episode was - something. I like the show leaving it at least somewhat open to interpretation whether the afterlife is canonical in the B5 universe, or whether this was some kind of tech/mental stimulation/etc, leaning towards "probably really dead people" but not making it completely unambiguous. I did not expect most people to have a really good time with their dead loved ones! That's not how it normally goes! Garibaldi and Dodger were especially cute; I love that they just got to have a second fun one-night stand with nothing really attached to it. I'm glad they brought her back, because I had forgotten about her, and I feel like she and Garibaldi have more chemistry, and more of a sense of being MFEO, in one and a half episodes than he and Lise did in their entire storyline. (Also completely here for Garibaldi being hyper-competent with patching the call through from their current location to B5.)

And Londo getting one last night with Adira. T__T Also Lennier with Morden, which I was *not* expecting; I thought it would be either Marcus or Neroon. (Me @ Lennier: Don't listen to him! This is the literal last ghost you should be listening to! Tie him up and gag him!) I liked that they kept the identity of the ghostly guest stars a secret by not putting it up front on the opening credits, so each visitation was a surprise.

The existence of an arguably canonical afterlife in B5 as well as people being able to come back from the dead under certain circumstances may need to be revisited in fanfic, I'm just saying.

Comments

[selenak]

Delenn ships Londo/G'Kar, I'm telling you. The whole representatives of enemy races thing worked for her and Sheridan!

Lochley turning out to be Sheridan's ex: at the time, I rolled my eyes, but when cahn watched the show for the first time two years ago, she requested Sheridan/Lochley backstory for Candyhearts, and I wrote it for her, and since then I've come around.

Day of the Dead is another favourite episode of mine, and the one where Lochley's characterisation really kicks in. It's also the first non-JMS written episode of Babylon 5 since mind season 2, and yet, he freely admitted the author did a better job with fleshing out Lochley than he'd done so far. You may or may not have noticed in the credits: the author is Neil Gaiman. Yes, he turned out to be a crappy human being. But also yes, he's a superb writer, and Day of the Dead highlights this, not just with the Lochley and Zoe scenes (which fit very much with some Sandman characters), but also with everything else, up to and including the encounter with the Dead (except for Lennier/Morden) turning out to be a positive experience JMS gave Gaiman carte blanche in who he could bring back, and Gaiman picked who he thought would make the most interesting combinations, hence Garibaldi/Dodger. (BTW, I agree about the chemistry vs Garibaldi/Lise.)

andraste did a wonderful vid about (some of) the women of B5 which has spoilers only up to this episode, which it uses as a framing device, and you can watch it here.

ETA: And speaking of fanfic using this episode's concept: hobsonphile wrote a Day of the Dead story for Vir, in which he gets visited by.... drumroll...Cartagia. (Because life has it in for Vir, and also he's prophecied to become Emperor after Londo, after all.)

[sholio]

Delenn ships Londo/G'Kar, I'm telling you. The whole representatives of enemy races thing worked for her and Sheridan!

I'd buy it! She probably had input into the seating arrangements for the new Alliance advisory council, too ...

I did notice the Gaiman credit on the episode, which, yeah, retrospective case of the Oh Noes, but it's certainly true that this was definitely by far the most human Lochley has felt in the entire season; hers and Garibaldi's were my favorites of the visitation scenes. (Although, I wonder if the different writer is why Londo and G'Kar felt a little out of step to me in that episode compared to the overall consistency of the rest of the season, to an extent - not in a way that I could really put my finger on specifically, more like both of them felt a little like a throwback to their somewhat less developed characterization to me. I didn't connect it to the writer, I just thought that every show has slightly inconsistent episodes; but also, I didn't realize that JMS has been writing literally *all* of them, and I could see those two, who both have incredibly specific character voices, being hard to capture.)

Anyway, I had simply assumed that the choice of dead visitor was based on actor availability, so the carte blanche thing is interesting to know! TBH I do feel like Adira is perhaps the *least* interesting possibility for Londo, particularly Adira as portrayed in the episode, who didn't really seem to have the edges or complexity that she had when we last saw her; she's really just there to be supportive and give him closure about her death. But at the same time, she's probably the only one of his many dead who could have given him a positive experience - well, maybe Urza as well - and it was nice to see him simply have a pleasant night in contrast to all expectations.

It's also interesting that the choice of dead visitor is not based even slightly on what they wanted or expected to happen, considering that those who had expectations (Londo, and possibly Lennier) definitely did not get whatever they had in mind.

And thank you so much for the vid rec, I will watch it! <3 I've been missing being able to interact with fanworks, especially with vids, but there's simply no way without finding out way too much. (The one relatively low-spoiler vid I had watched a couple of times turned out to be too revealing once I got deeper into the series and knew enough about the clips I was seeing to put them in context ...)

[sovay]

(Although, I wonder if the different writer is why Londo and G'Kar felt a little out of step to me in that episode compared to the overall consistency of the rest of the season, to an extent - not in a way that I could really put my finger on specifically, more like both of them felt a little like a throwback to their somewhat less developed characterization to me. I didn't connect it to the writer, I just thought that every show has slightly inconsistent episodes; but also, I didn't realize that JMS has been writing literally *all* of them, and I could see those two, who both have incredibly specific character voices, being hard to capture.)

"Day of the Dead" felt at the time and still feels to me like a blip in the voice of the show, which since I knew nothing from Neil Gaiman in 1998—it's more than possible that this episode was my first encounter with his work—I just chalked up to the difference in writers after more than two straight seasons of unfiltered JMS. Without getting into the retrospective problematics, I would say now that it feels like a Gaiman episode because he really is not a writer of science fiction; he found a way to niche a fantastic conceit into a show which was at home to it because B5 has always had an admixture of fantasy and horror in its sci-fi and then he was on his own ground. I still have no idea how he wound up guest-writing the episode. The mid-fifth season is a weird place for it to happen. In high school, I hoped fruitlessly for Harlan Ellison to do one before the show wound down.

(All of that said, agreed that Lochley deserved some actual characterization and she definitely gets it. I should be clear that I don't hate this episode! It's just a really odd object.)

she's probably the only one of his many dead who could have given him a positive experience - well, maybe Urza as well

I would have been completely down for that. ("Knives" left an impact crater in my adolescent id.)

(The one relatively low-spoiler vid I had watched a couple of times turned out to be too revealing once I got deeper into the series and knew enough about the clips I was seeing to put them in context ...)

That feels unfair!

[selenak]

I still have no idea how he wound up guest-writing the episode.

As far as I recall, JMS had asked him to since season 1, and s5 was the when he had the time and space. They knew each other as comic book writers and came across as mutually admiring each other a lot back in the day.

Speaking of Knives, wasn't that the last non-JMS written B5 episode before this one? Or was that the second Peter David episode? Anyway, it still appears crazily workoholic and mysteriously efficient to me that JMS managed to write every single episode since then (and then after Day of the Dead again) in a time when seasons were still 22 episodes per season.

[sholio]

I am genuinely astonished! I obviously knew that he wrote a lot of the episodes, but I wasn't paying enough attention to the credits to notice he's been writing *all* of them since that far back. Mad props.

[sovay]

As far as I recall, JMS had asked him to since season 1, and s5 was the when he had the time and space.

Fine! That makes sense. It was otherwise such a random time for a guest spot. Larry DiTillio's "Knives" had indeed been the last.

Anyway, it still appears crazily workoholic and mysteriously efficient to me that JMS managed to write every single episode since then (and then after Day of the Dead again) in a time when seasons were still 22 episodes per season.

It's still nuts.

[sovay]

(Also: cannot believe when I wrote my missing scenes for 5x02, the one other person besides Londo that I decided to have her interact with as a stranger is the person she actually knew before B5, although I reread that and I think it reads okay even with the additional context, since they work hard at being publicly formal with each other.)

It reads fine! Also I keep forgetting that their ex-relationship is canon because it affects literally nothing!

Delenn walking away GIGGLING after she inflicts Londo on his new bodyguard, I just cannot even with that scene.

"Did you try this line on G'Kar?"
"I did."
"And did it work?"
"Completely."
"Great Maker."

Garibaldi and Dodger were especially cute; I love that they just got to have a second fun one-night stand with nothing really attached to it. I'm glad they brought her back, because I had forgotten about her, and I feel like she and Garibaldi have more chemistry, and more of a sense of being MFEO, in one and a half episodes than he and Lise did in their entire storyline.

+1. They are my favorite of the night's pairings, closely seconded by the amazing no one's favorite of Morden with the infinite pettiness of the dead just hanging out reading the paper when Lennier won't listen to any more of his unwanted prophecy.

(I like self-awareness of the dead in this episode, as well as the implication that their return has something to do with what the living need rather than want—Morden explicitly claims that Lennier has to listen to him because he raised him, then never spells out why Lennier would have drawn him rather than anyone else in his past, although given his line of work in life the audience can wonder whether Lennier is hoping to be told how to get what he wants—in which case it actually is funny that Morden just tells him nope, never going to happen.)

The existence of an arguably canonical afterlife in B5 as well as people being able to come back from the dead under certain circumstances may need to be revisited in fanfic, I'm just saying.

I enable this suggestion.

[sholio]

I keep forgetting that their ex-relationship is canon because it affects literally nothing!

.... That is such a good point. And probably one of the things making it feel totally superfluous to the season. If Sheridan had picked her strictly on the basis of her qualifications and never met her before, not a single thing would change!

"Did you try this line on G'Kar?"
"I did."
"And did it work?"
"Completely."
"Great Maker."

I LOVE THEM. I also love - and looking at the caps really underscores this aspect of the dynamic, where G'Kar and Delenn are grinning at each other and Londo simply looks somewhere between embarrassed and helplessly pleased - that he doesn't seem to actually mind in the slightest that Delenn and G'Kar are essentially conspiring between them to arrange his life for him. He just cheerfully goes along with it, barely even bothering with the performative complaining this time. I feel like this gets back to the aspect of his character that was more evident in season one and early season two, before it was swallowed by runaway ambition, where Londo will do just about anything for people he likes. (And in spite of the political exigencies of the situation, which he's also certainly aware of, it cannot have escaped his notice that they're conspiring behind his back to protect him at least partly because they're worried about him.)

I like self-awareness of the dead in this episode, as well as the implication that their return has something to do with what the living need rather than want

Ohhhh, that last one is such a good point, and actually explains a lot about Londo getting Adira instead of, say, Refa.

(I do wonder who G'Kar would have ended up with, if he'd stuck it out.)

[sovay]

.... That is such a good point. And probably one of the things making it feel totally superfluous to the season. If Sheridan had picked her strictly on the basis of her qualifications and never met her before, not a single thing would change!

Right! It's the kind of retcon I'm not even sure what it's doing in the show! Like, thank God it isn't used to spark a love triangle, I would have thrown a brick through my TV, but then it's not doing anything that I can detect. It's much more interesting that she was a loyalist in the recent civil war.

I feel like this gets back to the aspect of his character that was more evident in season one and early season two, before it was swallowed by runaway ambition, where Londo will do just about anything for people he likes. (And in spite of the political exigencies of the situation, which he's also certainly aware of, it cannot have escaped his notice that they're conspiring behind his back to protect him at least partly because they're worried about him.)

Yes! It's both tactical and caring, and Londo just rolling with being cared for is almost inexpressibly touching even when it goes by in a quick exchange because he spent so much of this show walling himself off and now he's visibly just not. And even with the inevitability of Emperor Mollari II now bearing down on him at ill-fated speed, there's nothing last-chance about it. He's just being himself with these people, which includes not even slightly protesting the assignment of a bodyguard and then being absolutely obstreperous about the aisle seat.

(Also this episode is where I realized that G'Kar and Londo have spent enough time with one another to start to share speech patterns: "Why I'm thanking you for it, I don't know, but there it is." My dudes, it would be less obvious if you were wearing each other's T-shirts.)

Ohhhh, that last one is such a good point, and actually explains a lot about Londo getting Adira instead of, say, Refa.

Yeah—there's nothing Londo needs from Refa or even to say to him.

(I do wonder who G'Kar would have ended up with, if he'd stuck it out.)

I don't know! It feels like there could be so many options! I waver in the direction of someone meaningful from his past—like Lochley's Zoe—whom we would never have had the chance to meet. He has so much past and so much of it is so different from the person he currently is.

[sholio]

It's both tactical and caring, and Londo just rolling with being cared for is almost inexpressibly touching even when it goes by in a quick exchange because he spent so much of this show walling himself off and now he's visibly just not. And even with the inevitability of Emperor Mollari II now bearing down on him at ill-fated speed, there's nothing last-chance about it. He's just being himself with these people, which includes not even slightly protesting the assignment of a bodyguard and then being absolutely obstreperous about the aisle seat.

Yes!! From "I don't need anyone" to accepting that Delenn cares about him enough to go out of her way to include him in core Alliance planning, and to arrange protection for him when he's in danger; G'Kar cares enough to literally put himself in harm's way to protect him. The last shuttle Londo almost got on blew up! The last time G'Kar was at the Centauri court, he got tortured and sentenced to death! And yes, there are elements (for G'Kar) of sticking it to the Centauri, and there are elements of political necessity for all of them, and the entire thing is framed in the language of duty, because they're them; it always would have to be.

But what it comes down to is that they care about him and they want him safe, and you can easily see that he knows it from his almost shy, slightly embarrassed pleasure in it.

In fact, please enjoy a couple more caps of Londo experiencing the mortifying ordeal of being not merely known but loved, and Delenn and G'Kar's mutual delight over the success of their little conspiracy.





I also really like how the next thing after Delenn walking away is G'Kar immediately defusing the potential emotionality and/or awkwardness of the situation with a joke that's guaranteed to get Londo arguing with him. (And that playful little nudge, which I may never recover from.) The moment after Delenn leaves and they no longer have her as a buffer is exactly when the situation would get awkward or emotional if it's going to, but G'Kar immediately routes them right back to their usual sarcastic interplay.

[sovay]

In fact, please enjoy a couple more caps of Londo experiencing the mortifying ordeal of being not merely known but loved, and Delenn and G'Kar's mutual delight over the success of their little conspiracy.

Thank you, I will.

(Shyness on Londo is stupid cute.)

I also really like how the next thing after Delenn walking away is G'Kar immediately defusing the potential emotionality and/or awkwardness of the situation with a joke that's guaranteed to get Londo arguing with him. (And that playful little nudge, which I may never recover from.) The moment after Delenn leaves and they no longer have her as a buffer is exactly when the situation would get awkward or emotional if it's going to, but G'Kar immediately routes them right back to their usual sarcastic interplay.

All of this! The way their weird dynamic has evolved its own system of communication which is itself pretty weird, but it works for them.