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B5 3x09
Earth declares martial law; B5 reacts.
I love that this show has moments that make you think about real-world things in very specific ways. One of those in this episode is Garibaldi refusing to put on the black Nightwatch armband. As Zack points out, it makes logical sense to put it on: if he wears the black armband, he can simply walk into security HQ and nobody is going to question him being there, and then do whatever he wants. But it's psychologically and emotionally important that he doesn't do that - he doesn't join the organization even to fake it, because wearing the armband sends one kind of message and not wearing it (and telling everyone else to their faces that they're doing something wrong) sends a very different message and he's a person who does the second thing and not the first thing.
(Along those lines, with Garibaldi being a natural caretaker personality, and having already been dramatically backstabbed by one of his people once, the scene where he's obviously hurt and betrayed by so many of the security crew defecting to Nightwatch was really heartbreaking.)
I also really love - and this episode really crystalized that for me - that this is a show primarily about Lawful Good types: people who want to work within a hierarchy, follow the rules, and do the right thing in the most legal way. They are not going to blow up their careers; they are going to follow orders and find loopholes and try to hold on to the legal, correct way of doing things as long as they can in the hopes that back-home will get it together and they can go back to simply doing their jobs. Which is how most people are, and I feel like you don't often see this type of person on this type of show, where they don't go straight to the idea of revolution (even in a situation where they're already actively conspiring against the government), because they care about their careers and the maintaining of social systems and *not* blowing it all up unless they have absolutely no choice.
Loved their clever solution to the Nightwatch problem (at least for now) and getting Zack to play ball. The Narns as their new security forces is an interesting development; Franklin's right, Londo is going to flip about this.
Except he's busy with his own problems. I also really loved the subplot with the seer, and further terrible developments in the ongoing trainwreck of Londo's future predictions. I just generally liked her; she's smart, competent, cool-headed, and definitely no fool. I also really enjoyed her physically taking care of Vir after he was hit in the head with a bottle during the riot (which also plays up Londo's general selfishness and how much he takes Vir for granted).
And then the new layers of the prophesy, three chances to avert his fate, and Vir's fate now tangled up with his as well. Londo and Vir's obvious distrust of each other at the end of the episode - Londo, you *know* how you're going to die, Vir is not going to poison you, *come on*. (But it really speaks to the rot endemic to Centauri culture that both of them immediately leap to distrusting the other one as soon as they find out that one of them needs to die for the other to become Emperor.)
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The fascism was so much more historical when this show was written!
(Along those lines, with Garibaldi being a natural caretaker personality, and having already been dramatically backstabbed by one of his people once, the scene where he's obviously hurt and betrayed by so many of the security crew defecting to Nightwatch was really heartbreaking.)
Yes. It's the other reason, I think, that he goes down without the armband, trying to get them back on his own terms. These were his people. He built relationships with all of them. It should be enough that he asks as himself.
they are going to follow orders and find loopholes and try to hold on to the legal, correct way of doing things as long as they can in the hopes that back-home will get it together and they can go back to simply doing their jobs. Which is how most people are, and I feel like you don't often see this type of person on this type of show
That's a really excellent point.
and getting Zack to play ball.
The first time through this show, I was not expecting Zack to come back from Nightwatch. Not even because he had bought into its ideologies, but because he had been a sort of aggressively ordinary character and plausibly uncomfortable with the increasingly overt fascism and yet not uncomfortable enough to turn in his own armband and Babylon 5 had already demonstrated itself to be a show where people could catastrophically fail their moral event horizon rolls—Exhibit A, the B-plot—and a whole lot of ordinary people historically stayed fascists until either they died or their political system did. And I am genuinely not sure what he would have done about his discomfort if he hadn't been given an out by Sheridan and company, but the fact that he took it when offered made him suddenly interesting to me when he had until that point registered mostly as a cautionary tale. "You know, everybody always says that. I don't know who means it anymore. But, yeah. This time, maybe I did."
I just generally liked her; she's smart, competent, cool-headed, and definitely no fool.
Yes! I love how matter-of-fact the reading is when we finally get it: more like expert medical advice than mysticism, including that slight, dry regret that there's nothing to be done about Londo's becoming emperor. And at the same time, the fleeting uncanny shock of the accidental skin-to-skin transmission of his future. Lady Morella is one of the one-shot characters where it would have been very difficult to have her come back, but she's great.
The source material plays very differently, but this scene also was the first time it became apparent just how much of the Centauri arc was remixing especially the miniseries version of I, Claudius which I had handily discovered just that year; I was not complaining.
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Yes, I agree. And ouch.
The first time through this show, I was not expecting Zack to come back from Nightwatch. Not even because he had bought into its ideologies, but because he had been a sort of aggressively ordinary character and plausibly uncomfortable with the increasingly overt fascism and yet not uncomfortable enough to turn in his own armband and Babylon 5 had already demonstrated itself to be a show where people could catastrophically fail their moral event horizon rolls—Exhibit A, the B-plot—and a whole lot of ordinary people historically stayed fascists until either they died or their political system did.
I was also surprised! It really could have gone either way, and I agree about Zack being basically Redshirt #2 in his general personality and role - the show didn't have to give him an out, and it's likely that he probably wouldn't have come to it on his own if he hadn't been forced, because he's a guy who takes orders, not one who thinks for himself. But he does get it, and he does do the right thing.
(Similarly but slightly different, I was also pleased by the lieutenant who Ivanova was accidentally hitting on a few episodes ago making the active choice to support the independent B5 in spite of his earlier stated inclinations towards rule-following.)
more like expert medical advice than mysticism, including that slight, dry regret that there's nothing to be done about Londo's becoming emperor. And at the same time, the fleeting uncanny shock of the accidental skin-to-skin transmission of his future.
Yes! It was a great mix of matter-of-fact - the casual Centauri acceptance of prophesy, and knowing a little about your future, as a normal fact of life as we were discussing on another post - and uncanny liminality.
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It's a nice reminder that the right thing can be done! Yes, I am looking at some other certain people while saying this!
(Similarly but slightly different, I was also pleased by the lieutenant who Ivanova was accidentally hitting on a few episodes ago making the active choice to support the independent B5 in spite of his earlier stated inclinations towards rule-following.)
Yes! You were talking at one earlier point about how the background characters on Babylon 5 all seem to have their own things going on and Lieutenant Corwin is a really good example.
It was a great mix of matter-of-fact - the casual Centauri acceptance of prophesy, and knowing a little about your future, as a normal fact of life as we were discussing on another post - and uncanny liminality.
Apologies if that was a textbrick. I don't need a lot of encouragement to think about Centauri worldbuilding.
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Nonono, not at all, please don't stop! I've just been distracted with other (life) things and unable to return to that conversation as quickly as I wanted, but I have been thoroughly delighted by your comments and eager for each new comment notification I receive. <3 (Also, I'm aware that discussing a show this intricately plotted in detail without giving away future spoilers is a minefield, and I've been very impressed and appreciative of how well you're managing to do that!)
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Okay! I figured there was life going on, but I had also begun to worry that my enthusiasm about the show was juggernauting over your discovery of it, which I did not want at all. I am much more normally the person catching up on the media that the rest of my friend group has already seen. I appreciate the reassurance and also have some *hugs* just in case of the life things.
(Also, I'm aware that discussing a show this intricately plotted in detail without giving away future spoilers is a minefield, and I've been very impressed and appreciative of how well you're managing to do that!)
(Thank you! I have no idea which random things you know about the show's future and it seems rude to refer to them in any case given your request not to.)
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I also find this unusual and neat about the show. I don't think I noticed when I was watching it for the first time as a teenager, but appreciated it more when I rewatched as an adult with a family and a career -- with the exception of some of the younger and more rootless characters, everyone really does try to work within the system for as long as they can, and when they do end up taking drastic measures, it's generally with the awareness of consequences.
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Yes, that's it exactly - I also don't know if I would have noticed as a teenager, but as an adult with a career and a mortgage and a life, I appreciate it very much. I think in general this is turning out to be a show that really rewards watching as the middle-aged viewer that I am now. I'm sure that I would have gotten plenty out of it as a younger viewer and the fact that I still think of it as fondly as I do in spite of only having seen a couple of seasons in the 90s speaks to that, but it is absolutely hitting me where I live as a 40-something. I appreciate how many of the characters are adults with careers and how much of the show is about - for lack of a better way to put this - adult concerns and emotions, perhaps in a vaguely similar way to how Bujold's books are; where it's not just about characters who are adults but about navigating some of the emotional milestones of adulthood, especially with Londo's storyline but also some of the others.
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That's a really good point. Londo's arc definitely makes me think about the things one can't trade for your heart's desire, and I was actually thinking of Bujold comparisons when commenting on another post in this batch of comments -- the "LONDO NO" reaction when he goes back to Morden, one of only a few other moments I can think of where I was "CHARACTER NO" right in the moment while consuming a work of fiction is Miles at the beginning of Memory (falsifying the report) -- I think because it's a similar kind of thing where you know the character is equipped to make the better call, but that they don't is really consistent with their character, their tragic flaw if you will.