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So I started watching Babylon 5 ...
My history with this show is that I watched the first 2 or 3 seasons back in the 90s when it was airing, then never finished because I stopped watching TV in the mid-90s entirely for a few years (college dorm, no TV in my room, too busy, etc). But I didn't quit by choice - I was really enjoying it! Over the years I've gotten pretty thoroughly spoiled for some aspects of it, but I've been thinking I do want to see the whole thing at some point, and now that I'm more-or-less done with MASH, I figured this might be the next thing. I'll probably watch slowly - and it might end up being Too Much Like Current Events for me to really enjoy it; I'll have to see - but I enjoyed what I watched last night, so I think I'll keep going for now!
I watched 1x01 and the Gathering TV movie, which, by the way, is at the END of season one on both Tubi - which is where I'm watching it, it's all up there for free - and Amazon Prime. Why? WHO KNOWS.
Anyway ...
Thing one: **PLEASE DO NOT SPOIL ME IN COMMENTS FOR FUTURE EPISODES.** Yeah, I know some of the things that happen. But I've forgotten a lot of it, probably mis-osmosed some of the rest, and I would like to be surprised, please. (If I do end up getting too many spoilers, I'll have to stop talking about it until I'm done.)
Thing two: Because I *do* remember some of it from my first watch, anything in advance of the current episode(s) I'll put under a details cut:
... and I would appreciate if anything that is cut like this in a post is also cut/spoiled/rot13'd/whatever in comments so the post remains friendly to people who might also be watching along.
(I may change this later - if so, I'll say so - but I know![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
sheron wants to watch it, so I don't want to spoil her for anything she hasn't seen! I mean, I'm not gonna jump on you if you forget, but I'd like to keep these posts new-person-friendly for now. Please do not use this to talk about future spoilers I haven't mentioned or, presumably, seen without CLEARLY MARKING THEM so I can avoid them as well.)
Anyway moving on! This is about The Gathering and 1x01.
I actually watched these in reverse because a) I *do* know who everyone is, so I didn't really need the setup, and b) I didn't realize The Gathering was on Tubi until I'd already started 1x01, because of how they inexplicably stuck it at the end of the season, WHY. Anyway, they worked perfectly well in that order - I actually enjoyed getting a refresher course on the final season 1 version of the cast before seeing the origin movie, and then it's kind of a fun "how do we get there from here" and imagining people watching this with absolutely no idea who these people were or whether any of them were going to die during the movie or turn out to be evil. (I do kinda wish they'd kept the first female 2IC that Ivanova replaced; I like Ivanova, but I also liked her!)
- It is so fascinating watching this for the first time since the 90s. I'm actually slightly amazed how much detail I remember about the characters. But at the same time, I was watching it back then on a small-screen, possibly black and white TV (I don't remember if we had a color TV by this point, but if so, the picture quality wouldn't have been very good) and there's SO MUCH visual detail that I don't think I could see the first time around. G'kar's iridescent armor, like a beetle's carapace! The colorful Centauri quarters interiors! LONDO'S TINY FANGS, I had no idea he had those.
- I remember the Membari, Centauri, and Narn perfectly well. I do not remember the Vorlons AT ALL. Or, if I did, I guess I remembered them being part of some other show/book/whatever.
- Also fully unprepared for G'kar being so ... I was going to say villain-coded, but at this point I guess it's more like straight up antagonist. (DID he have sex with Lyta? Don't tell me. But I don't think I was ready for the whole "you can be awake or unconscious, it's up to you" part of that conversation, what.)
The cast changes are interesting; nearly the whole command cast other than Sinclair and Garibaldi was swapped out, I think, and I don't remember Sinclair's girlfriend ever showing up again.
Delenn is also a really interesting one - I knew about this from having read it beforehand (I was looking up whether Gathering needs to be watched before the rest of the show) but it is really interesting to actually see. They had conceived her people as androgynous/gender-shifting aliens, so she's made up to look male, but is still clearly flirting with Sinclair. I feel like it's probably for the best that they went with a female Delenn because there's every likelihood the execution would have ended up as a "well, that aged poorly" plot element, but it is so interesting if it had happened, because it is very much a thing you don't expect to see in 90s sci-fi.
Character preferences - okay, this one I will put under a details cut just in case anyone would like to guess, or watch without knowing this. I think anyone who knows me can IMMEDIATELY guess who my favorite is, or at least can narrow it down to a couple of options, and your first guess is probably right.
Londo. It's Londo. It was Londo when I was a teen, and it's Londo now. Actually I found it really interesting how immediate and strong that was, because I figured, well, it might be different this time around! I'm definitely reacting to some things differently.
...but NOPE. Id go Zing.
But it's intriguing to think about why, and although there's probably some element of having known I previously liked him playing into it, I also feel that, within a scene or two of meeting him, it's evident that he's just - different. Most of the characters feel like stock sci-fi types, and it's true that they're going to be more than that, but out of the box, at least, you kinda know what you're getting, and with Londo you really don't - is this guy going to be a hero or a villain, which way is he going to jump in any given scene, is he going to be comic relief or deadly serious, you just don't know. I can see why teen me went Zing on him (and on him and G'kar) and why it's happening to me again now.
I think he's also one of those character/actor combos who can do absolutely vile things while still putting off an air of, I don't know what the exact word is that I want here - vulnerability, perhaps, or the sense that what you see isn't all there is. Just really catnippy for me. I wasn't expecting it to kick in so hard and so soon!
Right, what else! Oh yeah, the 90s-ness, it's so interesting to see the 90s CGI on all the ships - it takes me back to video games and other sci-fi of that era, such a nostalgia rush. And it's also just fascinating in a sort of painful way to be reminded how much has happened and how different the world is in 2025 than in 1993. There's one bit where Sinclair is listing out famous sneak attacks and it's Pearl Harbor and a couple of made-up future ones, and while it's not like Pearl Harbor is the only option ever, I bet a modern version would include 9/11 and this sent me down a rabbit hole of thinking about what a different world it was. (But also very much the same world. It'll be interesting to see if it turns out to be too much thinking about modern times in the political landscape, we'll see.)
Also really interesting how absolutely ruthless they are - I think Garibaldi straight up telling Londo he'll execute him if Londo doesn't stand down from his plan to assassinate G'kar was really something, as well as Sinclair going from 0 to full on conspiracy at the drop of a hat. I have very mixed feelings about both Sinclair and Garibaldi so far. (And that is a change, I remember liking Garibaldi a lot when I watched this the first time, and this time I don't know if I do or not, the attack dog security agent thing he's got going on is probably one of those things that hasn't aged so well. Withholding judgment so far, though; I'm only two episodes in!)
I also did not realize that the prophesy that Londo and G'kar are fated to kill each other was right there in the first episode, somehow I thought that came in much later.
Anyway, I'm having a lot of fun and it's just so 90s, very much looking forward to more.
I might need an icon for this, in case anyone happens to know of any ...
I watched 1x01 and the Gathering TV movie, which, by the way, is at the END of season one on both Tubi - which is where I'm watching it, it's all up there for free - and Amazon Prime. Why? WHO KNOWS.
Anyway ...
Thing one: **PLEASE DO NOT SPOIL ME IN COMMENTS FOR FUTURE EPISODES.** Yeah, I know some of the things that happen. But I've forgotten a lot of it, probably mis-osmosed some of the rest, and I would like to be surprised, please. (If I do end up getting too many spoilers, I'll have to stop talking about it until I'm done.)
Thing two: Because I *do* remember some of it from my first watch, anything in advance of the current episode(s) I'll put under a details cut:
... and I would appreciate if anything that is cut like this in a post is also cut/spoiled/rot13'd/whatever in comments so the post remains friendly to people who might also be watching along.
(I may change this later - if so, I'll say so - but I know
sheron wants to watch it, so I don't want to spoil her for anything she hasn't seen! I mean, I'm not gonna jump on you if you forget, but I'd like to keep these posts new-person-friendly for now. Please do not use this to talk about future spoilers I haven't mentioned or, presumably, seen without CLEARLY MARKING THEM so I can avoid them as well.)Anyway moving on! This is about The Gathering and 1x01.
I actually watched these in reverse because a) I *do* know who everyone is, so I didn't really need the setup, and b) I didn't realize The Gathering was on Tubi until I'd already started 1x01, because of how they inexplicably stuck it at the end of the season, WHY. Anyway, they worked perfectly well in that order - I actually enjoyed getting a refresher course on the final season 1 version of the cast before seeing the origin movie, and then it's kind of a fun "how do we get there from here" and imagining people watching this with absolutely no idea who these people were or whether any of them were going to die during the movie or turn out to be evil. (I do kinda wish they'd kept the first female 2IC that Ivanova replaced; I like Ivanova, but I also liked her!)
- It is so fascinating watching this for the first time since the 90s. I'm actually slightly amazed how much detail I remember about the characters. But at the same time, I was watching it back then on a small-screen, possibly black and white TV (I don't remember if we had a color TV by this point, but if so, the picture quality wouldn't have been very good) and there's SO MUCH visual detail that I don't think I could see the first time around. G'kar's iridescent armor, like a beetle's carapace! The colorful Centauri quarters interiors! LONDO'S TINY FANGS, I had no idea he had those.
- I remember the Membari, Centauri, and Narn perfectly well. I do not remember the Vorlons AT ALL. Or, if I did, I guess I remembered them being part of some other show/book/whatever.
- Also fully unprepared for G'kar being so ... I was going to say villain-coded, but at this point I guess it's more like straight up antagonist. (DID he have sex with Lyta? Don't tell me. But I don't think I was ready for the whole "you can be awake or unconscious, it's up to you" part of that conversation, what.)
The cast changes are interesting; nearly the whole command cast other than Sinclair and Garibaldi was swapped out, I think, and I don't remember Sinclair's girlfriend ever showing up again.
Delenn is also a really interesting one - I knew about this from having read it beforehand (I was looking up whether Gathering needs to be watched before the rest of the show) but it is really interesting to actually see. They had conceived her people as androgynous/gender-shifting aliens, so she's made up to look male, but is still clearly flirting with Sinclair. I feel like it's probably for the best that they went with a female Delenn because there's every likelihood the execution would have ended up as a "well, that aged poorly" plot element, but it is so interesting if it had happened, because it is very much a thing you don't expect to see in 90s sci-fi.
Character preferences - okay, this one I will put under a details cut just in case anyone would like to guess, or watch without knowing this. I think anyone who knows me can IMMEDIATELY guess who my favorite is, or at least can narrow it down to a couple of options, and your first guess is probably right.
No future spoilers, just talking about that
Londo. It's Londo. It was Londo when I was a teen, and it's Londo now. Actually I found it really interesting how immediate and strong that was, because I figured, well, it might be different this time around! I'm definitely reacting to some things differently.
...but NOPE. Id go Zing.
But it's intriguing to think about why, and although there's probably some element of having known I previously liked him playing into it, I also feel that, within a scene or two of meeting him, it's evident that he's just - different. Most of the characters feel like stock sci-fi types, and it's true that they're going to be more than that, but out of the box, at least, you kinda know what you're getting, and with Londo you really don't - is this guy going to be a hero or a villain, which way is he going to jump in any given scene, is he going to be comic relief or deadly serious, you just don't know. I can see why teen me went Zing on him (and on him and G'kar) and why it's happening to me again now.
I think he's also one of those character/actor combos who can do absolutely vile things while still putting off an air of, I don't know what the exact word is that I want here - vulnerability, perhaps, or the sense that what you see isn't all there is. Just really catnippy for me. I wasn't expecting it to kick in so hard and so soon!
Right, what else! Oh yeah, the 90s-ness, it's so interesting to see the 90s CGI on all the ships - it takes me back to video games and other sci-fi of that era, such a nostalgia rush. And it's also just fascinating in a sort of painful way to be reminded how much has happened and how different the world is in 2025 than in 1993. There's one bit where Sinclair is listing out famous sneak attacks and it's Pearl Harbor and a couple of made-up future ones, and while it's not like Pearl Harbor is the only option ever, I bet a modern version would include 9/11 and this sent me down a rabbit hole of thinking about what a different world it was. (But also very much the same world. It'll be interesting to see if it turns out to be too much thinking about modern times in the political landscape, we'll see.)
Also really interesting how absolutely ruthless they are - I think Garibaldi straight up telling Londo he'll execute him if Londo doesn't stand down from his plan to assassinate G'kar was really something, as well as Sinclair going from 0 to full on conspiracy at the drop of a hat. I have very mixed feelings about both Sinclair and Garibaldi so far. (And that is a change, I remember liking Garibaldi a lot when I watched this the first time, and this time I don't know if I do or not, the attack dog security agent thing he's got going on is probably one of those things that hasn't aged so well. Withholding judgment so far, though; I'm only two episodes in!)
I also did not realize that the prophesy that Londo and G'kar are fated to kill each other was right there in the first episode, somehow I thought that came in much later.
Anyway, I'm having a lot of fun and it's just so 90s, very much looking forward to more.
I might need an icon for this, in case anyone happens to know of any ...
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We did have enough of a television for Londo's tiny fangs and I love them. Also the accent that no one else who played Centauri actually tried to replicate. I read an interview once where he said some of it was his Czech grandmother, but if so it always sounded to me by way of the Borscht Belt, and then he said things in it that broke the viewer's heart.
(I came slightly late to Babylon 5 in that I picked it up from the end of the first season and missed everyone's starting characterizations until re-runs and it was immaterial, I imprinted on Londo disastrously. On the show generally, it was the first series I followed and technically my first fandom as defined by forming an internet friendship based on mutual TV appreciation, and I did have other characters I loved dearly, but most of them were either radiating from the Centauri arc or, like, Ivanova.)
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I do kinda wish that in some other universe, I had been able to watch it in realtime without having any idea where it was going, but I can't imagine I won't enjoy the experience anyway, and I'll have plenty of fanworks to enjoy when I'm ready for them!
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(You may spoil yourself for this anyway, but I actually really would love to find out if you guess my favorite character without knowing who it is. I'm curious if I'm that obvious.)
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I watched the show for the first time about 3 years ago and will enjoy seeing your posts about it.
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Here's my B5 icon, but I do not remember where I got it now. I have a few others saved but not uploaded.
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You are going to have so much fun rediscovering all the things you forgot and discovering new ones. Enjoy!
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As you watch Season 1, keep an eye on the various aliens. B5 and Buffy were shot in the same studio and would occasionally steal each other's props.
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I'm also currently watching B5 for the first time!
When it was on the air originally, it aired directly opposite DS9 where I was. I was raised a Trek fan, and I wasn't going to miss the new Trek show for some unknown quantity. Sad scheduling!
Re: I'm also currently watching B5 for the first time!
They must not have been directly opposite each other in my time zone, because we watched both. Really interesting experience having both of those going on at the same time - I'm realizing that some of what I remembered as a DS9 influence on my early writing was actually probably B5 as well (or even more so).
Re: I'm also currently watching B5 for the first time!
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I hadn't really thought about how queer-coded G'Kar is until you mentioned him being villain-coded. They made him so aggressively heterosexual it almost reads at this distance as being "methinks the gent doth protest too much."
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Also fully unprepared for G'kar being so ... I was going to say villain-coded, but at this point I guess it's more like straight up antagonist.
Ha. Years ago a friend of mine followed bad advice by one of those heretics who think one can skip the first season entirely*, started with s2, then after finishing the show went back to watch s1 after all, and immediately complained that G'Kar's characterisation at the start felt like slander and character assassination, upon which I sighed and said if she'd done the thing properly and started with s1, it would feel like masterful character development, which it is.
But seriously, Londo's and G'Kar's arcs, both together and invidiually, are so fantastic, and the way JMS introduces them as seemingly comic relief characters, with G'Kar seemingly doubling as an antagonist (perhaps, 1990s watchers by and large assumed, destined to be a comic antagonist a la Dr. Smith in the original Lost in Space) was part of that. No one saw them coming. :)
I did a B5 rewatch a few years ago where I did leave spoiler space for newbies: the relevant entries are all here.
*While I do love the first season, I will admit it contains some skippable episodes, as many a first season does. But also so much important character stuff!
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I have a Delenn icon, but it's kind of a spoiler
That aside, Londo and G'Kar are a great pair of antagonists, and both actors are fabulous. They will break your heart, but you know that already. Also, yay Ivanova.
Re: I have a Delenn icon, but it's kind of a spoiler
Re: I have a Delenn icon, but it's kind of a spoiler
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I absolutely find Londo completely fascinating - absolutely built of contradictions and incredibly compelling.
Your comments about G'Kar and the villain-coded introductions are so spot on.
... I really need to get back on this.
Reactor Magazine is holding a re-watch bookclub so if you're interested in finding people talking about the show, there's a ready-made group over there!
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I hope you do continue your watch; we can go through it together! And thank you for the tip; I'll check those out when I'm in the mood.
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When you get to the end, you could look up the animated film that came out in 2023; 'Babylon 5: The Road Home'. I enjoyed that too, even though it had been so long since seeing the original show. I suspect someone who's just watched it will enjoy it even more.
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Londo is my favorite, too :)
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♥