sholio: (Whine)
Sholio ([personal profile] sholio) wrote2008-12-22 02:44 pm
Entry tags:

I probably shouldn't post this, but I'm trying to work a lot of this out in my own head.

I've seen rumors that the last two episodes of SGA have been leaked. (My God, what is with the episode leaks for that show, anyway?)

And ... I really don't care. The last time advance episodes were leaked, I just about drove myself crazy trying to find places to download them, but this time, I'm just not interested. I'm not really sure if I'm going to be watching those two eps when they finally air, either.

It's the weirdest thing; over the last few weeks, and especially this past week, it's like all the reasons that people keep giving for why the show isn't worth watching have snowballed until a switch flipped over, and I saw. And that was it -- the show and its characters aren't in my head anymore. They no longer give me pleasure.


And I'm bitter about it. I'm bitter as hell about it, and I'm trying really hard not to be, because it's nobody's fault, really, except maybe mine for not realizing that I'd be this affected by other people's disenchantment with the show.

I never wanted to cut myself off from fandom. I never even wanted to filter my reading and posting so that I was only interacting with the relatively small number of fen who were still enjoying the show. But really, reading fan reactions and fic for the last few months has been like having someone hovering over my shoulder and constantly jogging my elbow to point out the show's less attractive qualities. And the more it's pointed out, the more times it's pointed out, the more I see it, until it's finally gotten to the point where it's all I see. I can't really think of any way to phrase this that doesn't sound like I'm blaming fandom for my own loss of interest in the show, which is something that I'm really, really trying not to do. Everyone else is entitled to dislike it as much as they want, for perfectly valid reasons. I should have disengaged sooner. I didn't, and it cost me something I valued, and I have only myself to blame now.

I'm not one of those people who can stay in a fandom if I don't like canon. For me, it's all about love of canon -- wanting to extend and expand and build on it. Canon's the foundation. And without a love of canon, there's no way that I can make myself be interested and invested in the fic.

I really had to struggle to finish the Camelot story, because during the time I was working on it, it was getting harder and harder to slip into the characters' voices. There were parts of it that I really enjoyed writing, and a few parts of it that genuinely made me feel for them like I used to. But towards the end, I just wanted to get it done out of completeness, because I didn't want to have yet another unfinished WIP hanging over my head for all eternity, especially one that was so silly and pointless. I turned comments off on the story because I didn't want to hear anything about it, good or bad. I just didn't want to think about it anymore. But people are commenting in other threads anyway, so what the hell; I went and turned comments back on, because at least that'll keep them together in one place. I don't have comment notifications turned on, though, and I probably won't respond if people do comment on it. I don't really think I've got the mental oomph for it right now.

I don't want to be angry at the fandom, though, because being in this fandom has really been a wonderful experience for me in so many ways. I've met a lot of fantastic people; I've made some really good friends that I'd never have known otherwise. For that alone, it would all have been worth it. I'm not even sure to what extent I'm going to move out of the fandom. I know that right now, I want very little to do with the show and have little interest in its fic, but most of my f'list is still SGA-centric and I'm certainly not going to mass-defriend and stalk off in a huff. I've swung in and out of fandoms before, and it's always possible that I'll be lured back. My fan obsession with SGA has been longer, deeper and just different from my other fannish experiences, so I really have no idea how it's going to fall out in the long run.

Needless to say, if you're here for SGA stuff, there probably won't be much to see. There's one more story that's already written; it's a Secret Santa story for [livejournal.com profile] sheppard_hc that will be posted on the 24th when that particular fic exchange is unveiled. Beyond that, I've apologetically backed out of the other ficathons that I'd signed up for, because what I really just need is to have some breathing room and fan on other things for a while. I certainly won't take it personally if you defriend me; every day is defriending amnesty around here, and I know a lot of people are just here for the SGA. And I truly don't know where I'll be going with this fandom in the future. I already miss it, damn it. I've been making up adventures for these people for almost three years; it's freaking weird to not hear their voices anymore. This is going to sound insanely stupid, but I've actually had trouble falling asleep the last couple of nights. I always spin myself little stories to fall asleep at night, and for the last three years it's been mostly SGA -- but the familiar sorts of stories don't work anymore, because I don't enjoy them. It's strange and disconcerting.

I'm not posting this for sympathy or to have people try to talk me back into the fandom. I'm just working this stuff out "aloud" and, well, explaining why you might not want to leave me on your f'list if you're just here for the SGA stuff. I don't expect there will be negative posts about the show in particular, because I just don't work that way; I've already found something new to squee about, and I'd rather write those sorts of posts than this sort.

[identity profile] klostes.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:06 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm not one of those people who can stay in a fandom if I don't like canon. For me, it's all about love of canon -- wanting to extend and expand and build on it. Canon's the foundation. And without a love of canon, there's no way that I can make myself be interested and invested in the fic.

YES. EXACTLY! Canon has to work for me, or the show/fandom itself won't. I'm sorry that the show has lost its luster for you; it really sucks when there's an aggregate of other people's comments and opinions that suddenly overwhelm your own ability to just let go and enjoy.

For what it's worth, I've disengaged from the online Supernatural fandom in large part for that same reason. Yes, the show has issues, but I find that I can enjoy it immensely if I just back off and keep my fannish contact to a minimum. And SPN fandom really doesn't seem to go the same places as the show itself winds up going; I've give up entirely reading anything that's set in the current season and trying to explain things in the show.

So, yeah, between my negative experiences with the showrunners a la Carson, and negative experiences with fen and fandom, it's hard to find a place where I can indulge my fannish soul. But there are a few of us out here in the borderlands, so you won't be alone!
ext_2207: (Default)

[identity profile] abyssinia4077.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:12 pm (UTC)(link)
*nods*
I was wondering about that sentence in the email you sent me.

I've spent the last...bit over a year desperately wanting to re-find the Atlantis glee I had for a while there (and oddly my last fic and what looks to be my next one are SG-1/SGA hybrids taking place in the Pegasus galaxy so...maybe I'm not all lost?) and I just can't find it. Not quite what's happened with you, but I think I understand. Maybe.

And fandom is *such* a complicated entity, you know?

But I'm glad you found a new shiny to make you happy!

[identity profile] perspi.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:15 pm (UTC)(link)
This is very thinky, and I am finding much of your other posts very thinky and enjoyable, so I think I'll stick around. :)

I am rather disengaged from both my fandoms at the moment, but more for RL reasons than anything, although my House fandom writing is NIL because they've completely stopped talking to me. I haven't had your experience, that I dislike the canon, but I'm sorry to hear you're feeling this way. I DO appreciate hearing your thinky thoughts, so please do keep posting! And I like hearing about your new fannishness, even if I don't always comment...

[identity profile] dovil.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:16 pm (UTC)(link)
I've already found something new to squee about,

That's fantastic! :D
ext_1981: (SPN-dean dorky)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:22 pm (UTC)(link)
I was wondering about that sentence in the email you sent me.

Yeah, and I'm really having trouble with the beta because of it; I keep starting to work on it and then stalling out. I really *want* to, but it's hard right now.

New fandoms are shiny and fun. :) I do kinda hope I'll be able to wander back into SGA eventually, because I have really enjoyed myself. I've been in and out of enough fandoms to know that life goes on regardless, though, and there's always something new around the bend to squee about.
ext_3572: (Default)

[identity profile] xparrot.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:23 pm (UTC)(link)
*hugs*

I've never actually swung entirely out of a fandom, I don't think; for me it's always a slow fade. The more violent engagements still keep me engaged, so even when I'm negatively fanning, I'm still a fan. And SGA has drawn me back, these past few weeks; the fandom still has much to offer me, and I've made my peace with the canon.

But I've 'lost' a lot of fandoms over time, had characters stop speaking to me; sometimes they later speak up again, often they don't. And it's always a melancholy feeling - but there are always new series, always new fandoms out there! Better to be into what you enjoy than waste too much time trying to enjoy something when you don't.

(--Also, for me, I've found that losing fandom characters sometimes can allow my own original characters to move back in to my brainspace; while original stuff and fanfic are decidedly different for me, and don't always interfere, there is a certain element of limited resources...)

I hope I didn't play too big a role in your disenchantment with SGA; I fear I might have, and I can only offer my sincere apologies if so.

On the other hand - all good things, as they say, and you might find you just need distance - that after a while, you might not write fic again, but you'll be able to rewatch episodes and find the magic still there, or reread your favorite stories. (And the finale isn't going to break your heart by being the ending - don't feel obliged to watch it when it airs; you might wait and find that a time comes that you do want to watch the show again, and then you'll have new eps you've never seen!) (I do wonder if, being as attached to canon as you are, some of your disenchantment isn't only the general negativity in the fandom, but also a subconscious defense mechanism - you're leaving them before they can leave you?)

In the meantime - enjoy Wiseguy and the rest! I wish I had something to rec you (Merlin is awful fun in a totally cheezetastic way...have you seen Hustle? Not quite enough there for fanning, but great stuff, and a lot of cute made-family...)

[identity profile] argosy.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Go ahead and blame fandom. It's been really tough to listen to this stuff over and over again. I totally see where you're coming from, but I'm not ready to give it up.

However, I will tell you that fandom is going to rediscover its love for the show en masse with the airing of "Vegas." (I would give it a watch, if I were you. Maybe it might help? eta: I should add that it did wonders for my love of the show and season. Like miraculous amounts, so.) I really foresee huge outpourings of love and squee and fic. I hope that someday you'll get your love back for this show, because I will miss you and your stories and your thoughts like crazy. :( Well, never say never.
ext_2207: (Default)

[identity profile] abyssinia4077.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Aw. Seriously, if you want to not do the beta, that's totally 100% perfectly fine. I have a few other betas in my pocket and if your heart/brain isn't in it, I don't want to push it.

There is always something new. I'm currently having trouble imagining leaving SG-1 behind, but then I said that with my last few fandoms. Course so far this is the one I've spent the most money on and the longest in. Who knows?

[I can't remember, have you watched any Sanctuary? I have a sinking suspicion that if I get a new shiny, that might be it. I did not expect to like it this much.]

[identity profile] lavvyan.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I always spin myself little stories to fall asleep at night

I do that very same thing, and yeah, it's been mostly SGA for some time. Still is; I think I fell out of love with canon months ago, but I still love the characters and those past seasons I enjoyed. If that makes any sense. In any case, I hope you'll find something else to spin your tales around. Perhaps that new squee-worthy thing of yours will work.
ext_1981: (SGA-Sheppard rain)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:30 pm (UTC)(link)
I find it interesting how so many people seem to be in fandom (regardless of the specific fandom) for the fic and not the canon, because that's ... totally not how my mind works, that's for sure. Obviously their way of fanning is just as valid as mine, but for me it starts and ends with love of canon, even if the canon itself is flawed to begin with.

I can certainly see how SPN fandom would be a difficult one. I've generally steered clear of it myself as much as possible, though my own love affair with SPN was kind of short-lived and I guess I've been as guilty of picking apart the show as anyone else.

I guess part of the problem with fandom is that everyone's there for slightly different reasons, and sometimes it's hard to reconcile them!
ext_1981: (John Rodney nerdy)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:34 pm (UTC)(link)
If you don't mind, I think I'd like to pass on beta duties, then. I'm sorry; I really wanted to do it for you (it's nice to have our fannishness coinciding again, if only tangentially!) but I just don't think I can right now.

I watched the first webisode of Sanctuary (maybe the first two, I forget) and found myself having trouble getting into it; I liked Amanda's character and I loved that she was involved with it as a show-runner, but I found the overall show very unengaging for no reason I could really put my finger on. I just wasn't interested in watching more. Should I give it another chance, then?
ext_1981: (Lucky - WTF?)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Awww, thank you. ^_^ Naturally, anyone who wants to stick around is welcome to do so, also! And there's no obligation to comment on anything; I am an incorrigible lurker, myself...
ext_1981: (Whaleverse-pretty Rodney)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:37 pm (UTC)(link)
I am so in love with my new shiny (Wiseguy) that it makes me laugh. I should do a proper pimping post for it!

[identity profile] klostes.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:38 pm (UTC)(link)
As much as I enjoy the fic, the fic itself has to be rooted in the canon. I wonder how much of it is because we were writers before we came into fandom, and for us, the writing process isn't the same social event that it is for a lot of folks? That seems to be one of the biggest divides in fandom outside of the Slash/Gen split (and can usually be diagnosed by the complaints about "grammar Nazis" and what not.)

SPN is easily picked apart--but I could say that about a great many shows. *shrug* It's one reason I try not to rain on anyone else's fannish parades; we all have different things that draw us to different shows.
ext_1981: (Doppelganger dead)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:45 pm (UTC)(link)
I wonder how much of it is because we were writers before we came into fandom, and for us, the writing process isn't the same social event that it is for a lot of folks?

Hmmm...! That's an excellent point, and makes a lot of sense. For one thing, those of us who are non-fannish writers have other playgrounds for the ideas we have that aren't fandom-specific. I don't know if it works this way for you, but for me, the ideas that I work into fic (and the sort of fic that I prefer to read) are very specific to that canon and those characters. If it's not an idea that has to be SGA or SPN or whatever, I'll work it into an original story instead.

[identity profile] calcitrix.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:49 pm (UTC)(link)
I hope your new fandom eventually makes you as gleeful as SGA did.

I had the same thing happen to me in my last fandom as you're going through now. Character was killed off, fans split and got nasty, company even stopped publishing the comic and a new one did a re-boot, but I walked away from it all and even left an incomplete fic out there. I went through several days of restlessness and feeling dislocated. SGA was my replacement; vicious cycle, sigh. But I kept some friends from it and it's been long enough (gosh, like, two years) and I've been revisiting the fandom a bit. I totally understand where you're coming from, and while we haven't been close fan-friends, I think I'm just saying that enough of us have had similar experiences that people won't judge you harshly for it.

I've enjoyed your contributions to the fandom, and maybe another fandom will overlap in the future, who knows?

[identity profile] sheafrotherdon.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:49 pm (UTC)(link)
I am very, very glad that you have something new to squee about! I'm sorry that you feel like fandom left you - I can completely see where you're coming from, and I agree that there's been a lot of negativity. What's sad, or possibly ironic, is that Vegas airs in 10 days or so and is one of the best episodes I've ever seen. It rejuvenated me, to see it, but I couldn't help thinking, as I watched, dudes, could we not have had this awesome earlier? ♥
ext_2207: (Default)

[identity profile] abyssinia4077.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:52 pm (UTC)(link)
No problem at all. I don't want you doing it if you're not interested/enjoying it and I totally understand. Plus you're on vacation having fun! No not-fun fannish obligations (or otherwise).

As for Sanctuary, I never remembered to watch the webisodes (as excited I was about the idea of Amanda doing something awesome, the idea behind the show didn't sound all that appealing to me) so I can't speak to how different or not the regular show is. Once it was airing I decided to watch on a whim because, well, why not, and I'm surprised by how much I'm loving it.

The characters feel real and fun and three-dimensional and complicated (honestly, well-fleshed and thought-out for a first season) and interesting and I feel like the actors are enjoying playing with them. The stories themselves I'm finding reasonably interesting (though, like a lot of Kindler's Stargate scripts, they aren't as tight as I like my plots to be). I can't tell if you'd like it or not - it doesn't quite have the buddy dynamic you often seem to like in shows (though I'm starting to see elements of it between Big Guy and Henry) but I do love the group dynamic and the individual relationships and I love the mother/daughter relationship between Helen and Ashley.

I'd say it's worth a look, with the caveat that I can't say for sure if it will grab you more or not. [I can tell you that, after putting it off, [livejournal.com profile] beanpot finally sat down to watch it on Saturday and got SO hooked she mainlined every available episode in about a day]

[identity profile] klostes.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:54 pm (UTC)(link)
I had never thought of that reasoning behind some of the ... shall we say more egregious sins of some fanfiction? The MarySues, the "What if Sam and Dean had a Sister? I know it's been done before but this is MY take on it. R&R!" and so on. The writers have no other sandboxes.

Yes, my stories that I've written have all been character and situation specific to a particular fandom. One of my favorite stories didn't work until I hit my third fandom; the other two in which I tried to write it just couldn't handle the story.

So, yeah, having that other playground probably makes a big difference in what we write and why we write. And might explain why I'm reading more fanfiction now and writing less of anything, because all my writing brain cells are going into academic writing for the time being.

Love the icon, except that's the wrong "father-figure" there. *g* Sorry, Bobby will never, EVER be "hot" in my opinion.
ext_1981: (Art-red blue leaves)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 08:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Wiseguy is doing nicely for me right now as far as fanning goes; it's really a wonderfully well-written show -- which I think actually was another of the nails in SGA's coffin for me, because given how disillusioned I was becoming with the fandom and, through it, the show, then to switch to a show where the character arcs actually make sense and the emotional fallout of everything that happens is dealt with ... it really threw a stark light on SGA's shallow and inconsistent characterization.

Merlin really doesn't interest me, to be honest; I think I'm looking for a little more from a show right now than it could deliver, though I might be more into pure escapism in the future and have filed it aside for whenever my tastes inevitably swing back to the less intellectual end of the spectrum. *g* Naye has recced Hustle, too, and I'm planning on tracking it down ... plus I have the rest of Due South to get through! So I'm not really lacking things to watch.

I do wander in and out of fandoms a lot (as you know). Just being in SGA fandom for two and a half years is a big deal for me. I was just kinda wish I'd been able to get through the last two episodes before falling out with it. But I don't know how things will go -- it's always possible that if I leave the show alone for a while, I'll be able to come back and engage with it again.

And like you've said, original fiction *does* suffer when one is deeply engaged in a fandom. It might be a good opportunity to focus on some of my poor neglected original stories again ...
ext_1981: (BH-Mitchell smile)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 09:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Mmmm. I guess we'll see. I'm glad you got your squee back. :) I'm trying very hard not to be bitter and angry because, well, it doesn't do me any good and it's completely true that if I'm that influenced by other people's opinions, I ought to make it my own responsibility to stay away from them. It just got to the point where I wasn't getting enough enjoyment out of it to be worth fighting back against the tide anymore.
aelfgyfu_mead: (Rodney&Carson)

[personal profile] aelfgyfu_mead 2008-12-22 09:10 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm sorry this happened to you, and I hope I wasn't part of the cause. I know I've been increasingly disenchanted myself and hope I haven't shot my mouth off too much.

I stay away from Doctor Who fandom almost entirely because I realized it could hurt my love for the show, especially since it came back. I complain sometimes, but mostly I want to squee. We got it back. What could be better?

I hope you'll find your love for it again. For a bit, I grew apart from SG-1 (why do I talk about fandoms as if I'm dating them?). I argued with people over and over during s9, insisting it was still good and the mistakes weren't all that big, but s10 I found I could mostly see the flaws. I wasn't sure how much was hearing other fans complain and how much was just me, not getting what I wanted.

The good news is that I can go home again. I don't check for new fic as often as I used to, but I still check and read it; I'm careful to avoid anything that looks like it might bash characters (or give me character death or rape, which I do not want to read). I've found a lot of stories that make me happy again. I keep up with the rewatch community even though I don't have time to rewatch the episodes; I enjoy joining in the squee and the jokes. I've been away writing in other fandoms, but I find I have a renewed interest in some SG-1 fragments i started a long time ago, and I really plan to come back to them (if I ever get through this crazy Primeval story--yes, I am totally a canon girl except for Primeval, where I'm writing a fix-it for the first time in my life).

If SGA doesn't make you happy anymore, then by all means, let it go. I'm interested in a lot of your other posts, so I plan to stick around. If you go back later, you may find it makes you happy again. Otherwise, I hope you find a lot of other things that do!

[identity profile] tarzanic.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 09:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Sorry to hear SGA has lost its sheen for you. To be honest, it has for me too. That's okay though. Things change. I'm glad you've found new shiny squee! I've found your other posts quite interesting, so I plan to stick around.

ETA: Sorry for the double post. I had an odd LJ error for a sec.
ext_1981: (Catch-22)

[identity profile] friendshipper.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 09:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Hee! Well, the only other SPN icon I still have is this one (I tossed most of the ones I had when I dropped out of fannishness for the show).

The "other playgrounds" thing is something I've thought about before in terms of the kind of fic that people write, though I hadn't gone ahead and applied it to how people fan. The thought also occurred to me just recently, reading someone else's meta post, that maybe one of the main reasons why I seem to be (in general) a lot less bothered by -isms (racism, sexism, etc) in canon than many people I know is because I also create my own stories and books where I don't have to be bound by Hollywood's fixation on young white middle-class males. It gives me a measure of control over the situation that non-writers don't have.

[identity profile] blucola.livejournal.com 2008-12-22 09:17 pm (UTC)(link)
I am one of the people who was brought into the SGA fandom through the fan fiction. I'd actually resisted getting involved with another show, since I loved Farscape so much and it was such a shock when it was cancelled. I loved SGA before I loved SG1, as a matter of fact, despite Ben Browder being part of SG1! But I have really gotten attached to SGA, I don't actually have much that I don't like about the show. And I have had the same difficulty as you, reading posts picking apart the show and then trying to keep negative opinions of others from coloring my own.

It's gotten to the point where I pull right out of a post once it starts into a hateful direction. I feel as if people have turned on what they loved out of spite and I don't need that, I've got enough to worry about on my own.

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