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Sholio ([personal profile] sholio) wrote2024-01-18 09:23 pm
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Murder, Forgotten - Deb Richardson-Moore

This mystery/thriller has an excellent premise - an elderly writer, Julianna, suffering from dementia, loses her husband in an apparent home invasion. But she doesn't remember the night of his death, or much else surrounding that time, and has to piece together the sequence of events and try to determine whether one or more of the people around her is lying and whether one of them is a murderer.

How do you mess up a premise like that? In multiple ways, it turns out! Most egregiously,
Major spoilerby killing off Julianna (in a particularly frustrating way, too) halfway through the book when she gets too close to the killer, and switching to her much less interesting daughter as the sole viewpoint character.


It's pretty much all spoilery complaining under the cut.


The thing that annoyed me most about Julianna being killed halfway through the book is that it made everything which had been set up to that point just not matter anymore, such as her estrangement from her grown kids (never going to resolve that, I guess!) and the obvious but potentially interesting twist that her dementia was caused by someone close to her feeding her drugs. I was also DEEPLY annoyed that one particular red herring - Julianna thinks she saw her doctor (one of the murder suspects) in Scotland, where she had retired to recuperate after her husband's death; everyone else thinks she's hallucinating - was never actually explained! Was she actually hallucinating? We'll never know!

The actual mystery resolution .... makes less and less sense the more you think about it. Julianna writes thrillers that she often bases on real-life news stories. The killer is the subject of Julianna's latest book, trying to stop the book from being produced by - getting close to Julianna and murdering Julianna's husband in a complicated setup that was supposed to make it look like Julianna killed him in a dementia fugue state (the fact that it takes the characters half the book to even start suspecting Julianna suggests it wasn't a very good frame job) and slipping Julianna crazypills until she can no longer tell up from down. Then she fakes Julianna's suicide and ... ??? profit ???. (Honestly, if all she needed to do was stop the book's production, there was no need for the murder at all. The crazypills were plenty.)

I also feel like a lot of the unreliable narrator premise was wasted because there's very little of the book in which we really don't know what happened (aside from who actually killed Julianna's husband). There are enough witnesses and other people in the house around the time of the murder that there's no major mindfuck elements like, say, her husband wasn't even *in* the house, he died months earlier, he never existed ... etc ... but no, we know basically what happened at all times except for the actual murder itself.


Oh well, it was an entertaining read, even though it took me a while to finish it, and now I can amuse myself by thinking about how I'd do different things with the same premise. I really love unreliable narrators who are unreliable because they've had their memories messed with. Actually, if you have any recs for non-terrible books along those lines, I'd love to hear them!
yhlee: d20 on a 20 (d20)

[personal profile] yhlee 2024-01-19 06:39 am (UTC)(link)
This is also one of my bulletproof tropes! I am watching the comments with interest.

Actually, if you're okay with old-school pulp sci-fantasy, you might enjoy Henry Kuttner (and probably C. L. Moore also)'s The Dark World, which is amnesia + portal world; it's in the public domain (free download here) and one reason I chased it down is that it was apparently one of Roger Zelazny's influences for Corwin and Amber.

:sob: One of my favorites with that premise (sci fi) has characters (including the protagonist/narrator with the fucked memories) who are SUCH SOCIOPATHIC TRASH FIRES that I have never once been able to recommend that book to another living human being. I adore it but this is a very weird niche taste. (Especially weird because the other book I've read in that author's same setting is a very charming, modern-for-the-'90s updated Heinleinesque YA, so ZOMG TONE WHIPLASH.)
sovay: (What the hell ass balls?!)

[personal profile] sovay 2024-01-19 07:00 am (UTC)(link)
(Especially weird because the other book I've read in that author's same setting is a very charming, modern-for-the-'90s updated Heinleinesque YA, so ZOMG TONE WHIPLASH.)

Wait, if the first one is the book I think it is, what?
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[personal profile] yhlee 2024-01-19 07:49 am (UTC)(link)
Kaleidoscope Century by John Barnes is the one you're almost certainly thinking of (we've discussed it in my DW), which has the amnesiac sociopath for whom gang rape is, like, such a small crime compared to everything else it sort of rounds down to 0, which is why I've never actually recommended that another human being.

OTOH, Orbital Resonance is a charming YA from the viewpoint of Melpomene Murray, who's one of a...maybe genetically engineered (?) generation of teenage? kids who have grown up either on a station orbiting Earth or possibly a ship leaving Earth (I can't remember details), and how she and her friends initially have Much Conflict (including bullying) vs. an Earth kid and then they reconcile, and there are a lot of really fun details about orbital life and future pedagogy and so on. It's really well done, and while the bullying bits won't be for everyone, it's MUCH more fun YA sf romp than Kaleidoscope Century, which is nihilism psychopathy all the way down. The two books are in the same setting; one of the secondary characters is the son of a woman who we see as a minor character child/teen in Kaleidoscope Century.
sovay: (What the hell ass balls?!)

[personal profile] sovay 2024-01-19 07:54 am (UTC)(link)
Kaleidoscope Century by John Barnes is the one you're almost certainly thinking of

You sent me a copy in 2015! It was brilliant! I don't think we discussed at the time that it had a charming YA counterpart! I feel confident I would have blown a fuse then!
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[personal profile] yhlee 2024-01-19 08:15 am (UTC)(link)
Hahahaha. Yep, charming YA counterpart. I seem to recall someone went in the other direction, Orbital Resonance THEN Kaleidoscope Century and bounced the fuck off very early, with good cause!

There's a third in the sequence, Candle, which has a memetic war in the older pre-cat-pics sense. I've read it but my opinion is that while it gives some additional context to things going on in Kaleidoscope Century (and I suppose more peripherally to Orbital Resonance), it's just not as interesting a book. I can't even remember thing one about its protagonist or ANY of the characters.
sovay: (Morell: quizzical)

[personal profile] sovay 2024-01-19 08:28 am (UTC)(link)
I seem to recall someone went in the other direction, Orbital Resonance THEN Kaleidoscope Century and bounced the fuck off very early, with good cause!

I cannot imagine that working.

Do you recommend any other of his novels (as we veer wildly off-topic)? Kaleidoscope Century remains the only one I've read.
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[personal profile] yhlee 2024-01-19 08:34 am (UTC)(link)
The other ones I've read-ish: One for the Morning Glory is screwball fantasy that has half a prince as the MC and runs off deliberate clever malapropisms(?), bad made-up example but the book will say illiterate instead of obliterate etc (I had to google a random example). It's very clever but drove me bugfuck so I never finished it. I now wonder if there was some Hope Mirrlees Lud-in-the-Mist homage or parody involved, but tbh I am the heretic who found Lud-in-the-Mist excruciatingly boring.

He also wrote some sci fi big huge disaster books in the '90s or oughts iirc, Mother of Storms was one. They were competent but not particularly memorable.
sovay: (Claude Rains)

[personal profile] sovay 2024-01-19 08:40 am (UTC)(link)
I now wonder if there was some Hope Mirrlees Lud-in-the-Mist homage or parody involved, but tbh I am the heretic who found Lud-in-the-Mist excruciatingly boring.

Sounds more like an L. Sprague de Camp homage; he wrote several screwball fantasies, mileage extremely variable. Lud-in-the-Mist may have bored you, but it did not depend on malaprops for its worldbuilding.
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[personal profile] yhlee 2024-01-19 08:45 am (UTC)(link)
wasn't there half a person in lud-in-the-mist as a major plot point or did i hallucinate that?? agreed de camp is much more malapropland tjough
sovay: (PJ Harvey: crow)

[personal profile] sovay 2024-01-19 09:29 am (UTC)(link)
wasn't there half a person in lud-in-the-mist as a major plot point or did i hallucinate that??

I don't think there's half a person in Lud-in-the-Mist! There's a lot of blurriness between the dead and the land of Fairy, but I don't believe it ever results in anyone being split, just weirdly enthralled.
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[personal profile] yhlee 2024-01-19 08:42 am (UTC)(link)
also not a rec as such but Jack L Chalker's The Identity Matrix is 1000000% this, but because Chalker, literal bimbo hooker transformation. (The sci-fi mts plot bits are pretty well constructed but it's hard to see them past the hooker sensationalism, among other things.)
sovay: (PJ Harvey: crow)

[personal profile] sovay 2024-01-19 06:50 am (UTC)(link)
How do you mess up a premise like that? In multiple ways, it turns out! Most egregiously

Aaaaaaaaaaaaah I have never read and will never read this book and I am frustrated! The entire point of that kind of narrator is to carry them through to the end of their story!

It is probably a spoiler even to recommend it under these circumstances, but have you read Diana Wynne Jones' Archer's Goon (1984)?
sovay: (Lord Peter Wimsey: passion)

[personal profile] sovay 2024-01-19 07:31 am (UTC)(link)
I can think of at least two other books of hers that have it (Hexwood and Time of the Ghost are the ones I'm thinking of, at least to an extent in the latter case).

Hexwood is one of my favorites of her novels. Fire and Hemlock also, which makes use of similarly divergent memories.

The trope shows up in secondary characters as well—I'm thinking of Howl's Moving Castle and A Tale of Time City, but I know there are other examples.
yhlee: Alto clef and whole note (middle C). (Default)

[personal profile] yhlee 2024-01-19 07:51 am (UTC)(link)
You know, I've got to reread Archer's Goon, because I could not make heads or tails of it when I read it in 8th? grade, because also I tended to skim every time there was a descriptive passage etc. :facepalm: I bet it's a lot more fun now, although the Diana Wynne Jones book I love best is still probably going to be Charmed Life (which is not really this trope).
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[personal profile] lokifan 2024-01-20 06:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Would def recommend a reread of Archer's Goon, personally! It's been a while for me but I feel like the ending hangs together better than many of hers do. The one I couldn't make heads nor tails of as a kid was Hexwood.

Ah, Charmed Life. I think The Lives of Christopher Chant might be my very favourite DWJ, but Charmed Life is extra special to me because it was my first encounter with her and a big part of why I swung from genre-agnostic into fantasy fan.
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[personal profile] lokifan 2024-01-20 06:39 pm (UTC)(link)
She does! Actually, it occurs to me belatedly, her enormous influence on me is probably why I'm trying to write a children's fantasy where the main character has had some of her memories removed... (The other main character is her friend who's like 'I'm trying to save you from the weird situation you're in, why are you yelling at me?... OH this is all much worse than we thought.')
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[personal profile] rheanna 2024-01-19 07:31 am (UTC)(link)

I read a book with a similar premise a long time ago…

(Pause while I run off and do some googling)

Oh, yeah, here we go - Turn of Mind by Alice LaPlante. The main character is a woman who was a surgeon but has been diagnosed with dementia. A close friend has been killed and the victims fingers have been removed in exactly the kind of way you might expect a surgeon to do it. Protagonist does not remember committing the murder or why she might have done it.

It’s been so long since I read it that I don’t recall if it was any good or not though, so this isn’t a rec so much as a ‘this is a thing that exists’.

yhlee: Alto clef and whole note (middle C). (Default)

[personal profile] yhlee 2024-01-19 07:58 am (UTC)(link)
WAIT, there's a short story that is not unreliable narrator as such but there is definitely an unreliable major character in a way that I thought was really compelling. I'm trying to track it down because I don't remember the author/title, only that I found out about it because James Davis Nicoll reviewed it and it was available in audiobook format. AUGH, off to hunt it down.
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[personal profile] yhlee 2024-01-19 08:13 am (UTC)(link)
FOUND IT, I belatedly remember it was a...radio play or something??? or maybe TV something???

Clean Escape

A dying Dr. Deanna Evans refuses to believe that her patient, Robert Havelmann, cannot remember the last 25 years of his life. It remains unclear why she has been so obsessed with this particular patient until the final, shocking conclusion.


The Wikipedia article has more (NOTE: it spoils everything)
″A Clean Escape″ is a 1985 science fiction short story by American writer John Kessel. The story was first published in Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine in May 1985, and later adapted into a play by author in 1986. It features a psychiatrist attempting to cure a special patient of his amnesia. Slowly, as the patient regains his memory, more and more secrets are revealed about who this person is and the truth about their civilization as a whole.

So, not quite this trope in that it's not the narrator who's unreliable as such, but it was close enough to the trope that I really liked it.
sovay: (Jeff Hartnett)

[personal profile] sovay 2024-01-19 08:32 am (UTC)(link)
Actually, if you have any recs for non-terrible books along those lines, I'd love to hear them!

It is amazing how much my brain, on being requested for books in this line, has been supplying movies and TV shows instead.
yhlee: Alto clef and whole note (middle C). (Default)

[personal profile] yhlee 2024-01-19 08:38 am (UTC)(link)
:slides in: I would welcome TV/mivie recs...

The movie Angel Heart (maybe noirish???) is totally this trope but also so dark (in a spoilery way) that i don't tend to rec it either. Joe stopped trusting my movie night picks after we watched it together.
sovay: (Claude Rains)

[personal profile] sovay 2024-01-19 09:27 am (UTC)(link)
I would welcome TV/mivie recs...

I can't speak to the second season, but the first, self-contained season of Homecoming (2018) is one of my favorite recent deployments of this trope; it is near-future science fiction set in two different timelines with a central mystery of what happened in between them. On one side of the divide, the protagonist is a counselor employed at a couple of sub-contracted removes to work with veterans of multiple tours of duty in America's global forever wars. On the other, she has moved back in with her mother and waitresses at a crab shack. The bureaucratic irregularity of a long-shelved complaint pertaining to the facility where she worked and specifically the last case she worked on comes across the desk of an investigator for the DoD and the plot kicks off. It is not impossible to discern from early on where the general drift of the sfnal creepiness is going, but the narrative uses its multiple strands for more than just dazzle camouflage: one of my favorite stretches is the mid-season where the investigator looks to the protagonist like the government hunting her down and she looks to him like the linchpin of a cover-up and each of them is in their own separate conspiracy thriller and the audience can see it's more complicated and at the same time it's perfectly true. It was adapted from a podcast that I have never listened to and therefore cannot rate any fidelity to, but I was impressed by the show to the point where I remain puzzled it didn't even rate a look-in at the Hugos; its treatment of memory means that it becomes in many ways a meditation on how much of who we are is what we remember, by turns evoking trauma or dementia or dissociation without ever reducing to a metaphor. I found it extraordinarily good at a kind of low-grade accumulating skin-crawl which cannot be separated from a really goofy sense of humor played bone-dry straight. (I wrote very briefly about my favorite character in the series because he personifies this latter quality.) I watched it in 2020 on the strength of [personal profile] moon_custafer's recommendation and have never gone on to the second season because it is apparently a very different sort of story, but I really like the handling of memory and narrative and knowability in this one.

Also in 2020 I discovered Anthony Asquith's Libel (1959) which is a late noir that feels like science fiction from the way it handles its otherwise realist conceit: the protagonist is on trial for stealing another man's identity and thanks to the circumstances of war under which it is supposed to have happened, he can't remember if it's true. I watched it cold, loved it desperately, it is surprisingly available on Amazon and other streaming services. I'd never heard of it before it turned up on TCM. (My review is spoiler-filled, but it was so beautiful that I had to talk about it.)

[edit] OH. RIGHT. Alex Proyas' Dark City (1998). Watch the director's cut without the explanatory narration. It is entirely about this trope and hugely metafictional and also a completely cromulent sf noir. My favorite character is the one played by Kiefer Sutherland for reasons that are not apparent until nearly the end of the film but will be incredibly obvious. I wrote about it a little when I saw it for the first time in 2011 and again when it turned up at the 'Thon in 2018.

The movie Angel Heart (maybe noirish???) is totally this trope but also so dark (in a spoilery way) that i don't tend to rec it either.

Fortunately, I've been told I would love it by Gemma Files, I've just never managed to get around to renting and seeing it.
Edited (and then I will step away from this comment and go to bed) 2024-01-19 09:39 (UTC)
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[personal profile] pauraque 2024-01-19 12:17 pm (UTC)(link)
This sounds like the movie Memento but handled much worse!
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[personal profile] trobadora 2024-01-19 01:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh wow, that sounds like a huge waste of an excellent premise indeed!
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[personal profile] sgatazmy 2024-01-20 01:12 am (UTC)(link)
I was reading an SGA fic recently that had something like 1000 kudos and I was so confused why it was popular because John and Ronon seemed out of character and the narration (Rodney’s) kept skipping in weird ways. But because 1000 kudos is a hell of a lot to recommend it, I kept with it. Turned out to be unreliable narrator and when everything became clear John and Ronon were very much in character and the glitching narration made so much sense (Rodney was blacking out and missing key memories regularly every time it glitched). I ended up loving it and it was really a fun story. But I feel that while unreliable narrator is a great way to tell a story, it needs to not feel so incongruous to the reader that the only reason I kept with it was the 1000 kudos (and it promised me Rodney in handcuffs which is my all time favorite thing to read and write).


Now the book you read killing the narrator and switching like that would drive me so bonkers! Gah!
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[personal profile] lokifan 2024-01-20 06:35 pm (UTC)(link)
What???? That's so annoying!!

The thing that annoyed me most about Julianna being killed halfway through the book is that it made everything which had been set up to that point just not matter anymore, such as her estrangement from her grown kids (never going to resolve that, I guess!)

MADDENING. And a total waste of a mindfuck, as you say. Plus it feels especially annoying for the killer to be an outsider who got close for the purpose of killing. There might be a good book in, say, the daughter or somebody being the killer, and they were seen by the Julianna character but she's got dementia, and the book is from her POV and she's stressing about if her mother remembers or is pretending not to or is about to tell or what.
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[personal profile] genarti 2024-01-23 07:18 am (UTC)(link)
Have you read The Interrogation of Ashala Wolf? Australian Aboriginal YA that I enjoyed when I read it several years ago, though I haven't read it since. Recommending it in this context is a bit of a spoiler, but oh well!

ETA: Also, oh my god, I think I would have noped out immediately upon hitting that massive spoiler. No! What a betrayal of your novel's premise!
Edited 2024-01-23 07:19 (UTC)