![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Entry tags:
The Alienist episodes 5-8
Once again, no spoilers for the final two episodes of the season, please, so the people watching along can remain unspoiled!
So a lot definitely went down in those episodes! Silver Smile wasn't really the killer, Laszlo managed to make literally every person on the show hate him except the one person whose niece thinks he should, and then had lovely bonding moments with Mary and John, and now Mary is - WOE!! - dead. (Mary's death is the last point in the episodes we watched.)
First of all, I felt like this set of episodes really started digging into the characters and their various traumas. It was just so painful, but we saw them starting to work through some of it, to a degree! John quit drinking (and then fell off the wagon because of Laszlo; thanks, Laszlo); Sara has noticeably gained confidence, even if she sometimes uses it to pry into things she shouldn't; Laszlo is learning to Talk About Feelings To People Who Love Him.
The scene in the woods with Laszlo and John basically lives in my head rent-free for any number of reasons, but the main reason is because that was the point in the show when it really hit me how much they love each other, and especially how much John loves Laszlo. Not just refusing to leave him, but also when he thinks Laszlo is talking about Sara, he's not going to say a word! He's just going to step aside so they can be happy while his heart is breaking!
Laszlo never actually apologized but they clearly do patch things up and relax around each other, and I think part of why is because that whole sequence in the woods gave each of them something they've been needing for the entire show.
There was a behind-the-scenes featurette I was watching (the Inside the Episode features are all on Youtube and really are excellent; they add a lot of context!) and it talked a little about how this was the episode in which we learned that John can be heroic. It hadn't really occurred to me that he hadn't been, but looking back on it, and rewatching the episodes with that in mind ... I think one of the problems he's been having all along - and one of the weak points that Laszlo chisels at - is that he feels like he has nothing to offer the team. He's not Laszlo-class smart, he doesn't have investigative skills, he's not a badass. He avoids or loses every fight. On some level he's afraid that the whole team sees him as this useless deadweight, a lazy lush. And he really needed an opportunity to get to be the big damn hero for a change.
Meanwhile Laszlo got an absolutely undeniable confirmation that someone loves him enough to risk their lives for him and he got to open up and talk about things. He's happy! He's smiling! I also just absolutely love how, as soon as John realizes that the person Laszlo's talking about isn't Sara, he immediately wants to know all about it. His little geek friend is in love! He wants all the details!
They're so cute.
On my first watch, at the beginning it was hard for me to tell how much they liked each other, or whether they were actually very close at all. But I read them now as estranged, early on; you kind of get the impression in their very first scene that they haven't seen each other in a while. Presumably their friendship tanked somewhat when John went down a mental health rabbit hole, because he's always been the stable one and now he's not. Early on you can see that Laszlo is concerned about him (the way he tracks it with his eyes every time John is drinking, say) but being Laszlo, he doesn't have the emotional tools to actually express sympathy or do anything about it. So basically they've gotten into this toxic spiral where John pulls away (but keeps coming back), and Laszlo pushes him away every time he does come back. But underneath it all they really, deeply care about each other.
So yeah, that all happened. Meanwhile I continue to really enjoy the rest of the ensemble getting deeper into the detecting - Sara's intelligence and determination, the Isaacsons going all the way out West, even Laszlo's household getting in the act. And that scene with Laszlo and Cyrus's niece hit hard. I especially like the bit where she corrects him from "Miss [firstname]" to "Miss Lastname", that she won't give an inch -- and that he really thinks about what she says and tries to course-correct, to an extent. It had obviously never occurred to him to really think about the power differential between himself and these people, or that his little household is very centered around him at the top of the hierarchy. That they can't easily say no if he asks them to do something. His apology to Cyrus and Stevie is really heartfelt and also maybe the first time in the show he's ever apologized for anything. (And then he tries to apply the same thing to Mary with the worst possible results. Oh, Laszlo, how can you know this much about people and be the actual worst at putting it into practice?)
Anyway, this also opens up a whole new topic I haven't really talked about yet, which is how sharp the show is on class. I really love how it's been dealing with it, because on the one hand the show doesn't shame you for enjoying its wallowing in lavish clothes and glitzy beauty -- and I mean! That's part of the fun of period dramas! We're here for it! But it also doesn't let you forget that the beautiful clothes and society balls are built on the backs of the poor, and all the characters, as truly likable as most of them are, still are embedded in a corrupt system. The police are in the pocket of the rich. People in John and Roosevelt's circles schmooze at fancy galas while children freeze on the street. I love the cut from the kids huddled in a doorway -- that even Laszlo walks past, because he knows he can't save them all -- to the out-of-touch wealthy at their fancy party, all the more so because some of those out-of-touch rich people are people we've come to love and in some ways admire ... but they're still living in a world very far removed from the world of the poor, that only can exist because of the city's wealth differential.
And yet - as the show also shows, having money and social privilege is the only way that people like Sara and Laszlo (a woman and a disabled man, respectively) can have even the amount of influence they have. Sara would never be able to do what she does if she didn't come from money. I feel like the show is fairly unapologetic about this - it doesn't tell you what to think so much as show you and let you draw your own conclusions. Sara has a beautiful house and a maid to help her dress, and without all of this, there was no way that even the small crack in the door that's open to her would be open. But she also works herself raw to keep that little crack open. It feels very honest and real; you can't ever quite relax and not think about it, but the show also doesn't shame its characters for being born what they were (while also not letting them relax and fail to rise above it - Laszlo tries to be better with the people he has power over, Sara refuses to accept the life of a society wife, John tries to be more than a louche playboy).
And on the flip side, money can't protect Willem Van Bergen from being railroaded by the cops and eventually shot because, when they needed a murderer, he was the first gay person they thought of. This is another misdirection thing that I really appreciated on the rewatch, because the first time around, of course, I thought all the clues pointed to him - but in reality only about half of them do, and it's all completely circumstantial. It's implied that he's not the greatest guy - there are rumors about him and the choir boys, and he hires teenage prostitutes. But he is certainly not a killer, and unlike the real killer, he's not into little kids and he doesn't seem to do anything except treat the prostitutes he hires nicely. He's just a spoiled rich kid who lives in a world where his wealth and privilege and family connections can't, in the end, save him.
I also feel like even the worst people on the show are treated with a degree of sympathy that makes them feel like people rather than cartoons. Even with someone objective terrible, like formerly-sergeant Connor, you get a few moments when it's genuinely hard not to feel bad for the guy (while also feeling that every horrible thing that happens to him is something he has coming).
And in the same way, the way that the sympathetic characters bounce off each other's broken edges leads them to be absolutely horrible sometimes. And yet, then they have these moments of transcendentally lovely empathy and connection, like Laszlo and Mary, or John and Laszlo in the woods. Everyone on this show needs and deserves a hug and a blanket and hot cocoa and some therapy with someone who isn't Laszlo.
As always, feel free to talk about any aspects you want in the comments!
So a lot definitely went down in those episodes! Silver Smile wasn't really the killer, Laszlo managed to make literally every person on the show hate him except the one person whose niece thinks he should, and then had lovely bonding moments with Mary and John, and now Mary is - WOE!! - dead. (Mary's death is the last point in the episodes we watched.)
First of all, I felt like this set of episodes really started digging into the characters and their various traumas. It was just so painful, but we saw them starting to work through some of it, to a degree! John quit drinking (and then fell off the wagon because of Laszlo; thanks, Laszlo); Sara has noticeably gained confidence, even if she sometimes uses it to pry into things she shouldn't; Laszlo is learning to Talk About Feelings To People Who Love Him.
The scene in the woods with Laszlo and John basically lives in my head rent-free for any number of reasons, but the main reason is because that was the point in the show when it really hit me how much they love each other, and especially how much John loves Laszlo. Not just refusing to leave him, but also when he thinks Laszlo is talking about Sara, he's not going to say a word! He's just going to step aside so they can be happy while his heart is breaking!
Laszlo never actually apologized but they clearly do patch things up and relax around each other, and I think part of why is because that whole sequence in the woods gave each of them something they've been needing for the entire show.
There was a behind-the-scenes featurette I was watching (the Inside the Episode features are all on Youtube and really are excellent; they add a lot of context!) and it talked a little about how this was the episode in which we learned that John can be heroic. It hadn't really occurred to me that he hadn't been, but looking back on it, and rewatching the episodes with that in mind ... I think one of the problems he's been having all along - and one of the weak points that Laszlo chisels at - is that he feels like he has nothing to offer the team. He's not Laszlo-class smart, he doesn't have investigative skills, he's not a badass. He avoids or loses every fight. On some level he's afraid that the whole team sees him as this useless deadweight, a lazy lush. And he really needed an opportunity to get to be the big damn hero for a change.
Meanwhile Laszlo got an absolutely undeniable confirmation that someone loves him enough to risk their lives for him and he got to open up and talk about things. He's happy! He's smiling! I also just absolutely love how, as soon as John realizes that the person Laszlo's talking about isn't Sara, he immediately wants to know all about it. His little geek friend is in love! He wants all the details!
They're so cute.
On my first watch, at the beginning it was hard for me to tell how much they liked each other, or whether they were actually very close at all. But I read them now as estranged, early on; you kind of get the impression in their very first scene that they haven't seen each other in a while. Presumably their friendship tanked somewhat when John went down a mental health rabbit hole, because he's always been the stable one and now he's not. Early on you can see that Laszlo is concerned about him (the way he tracks it with his eyes every time John is drinking, say) but being Laszlo, he doesn't have the emotional tools to actually express sympathy or do anything about it. So basically they've gotten into this toxic spiral where John pulls away (but keeps coming back), and Laszlo pushes him away every time he does come back. But underneath it all they really, deeply care about each other.
So yeah, that all happened. Meanwhile I continue to really enjoy the rest of the ensemble getting deeper into the detecting - Sara's intelligence and determination, the Isaacsons going all the way out West, even Laszlo's household getting in the act. And that scene with Laszlo and Cyrus's niece hit hard. I especially like the bit where she corrects him from "Miss [firstname]" to "Miss Lastname", that she won't give an inch -- and that he really thinks about what she says and tries to course-correct, to an extent. It had obviously never occurred to him to really think about the power differential between himself and these people, or that his little household is very centered around him at the top of the hierarchy. That they can't easily say no if he asks them to do something. His apology to Cyrus and Stevie is really heartfelt and also maybe the first time in the show he's ever apologized for anything. (And then he tries to apply the same thing to Mary with the worst possible results. Oh, Laszlo, how can you know this much about people and be the actual worst at putting it into practice?)
Anyway, this also opens up a whole new topic I haven't really talked about yet, which is how sharp the show is on class. I really love how it's been dealing with it, because on the one hand the show doesn't shame you for enjoying its wallowing in lavish clothes and glitzy beauty -- and I mean! That's part of the fun of period dramas! We're here for it! But it also doesn't let you forget that the beautiful clothes and society balls are built on the backs of the poor, and all the characters, as truly likable as most of them are, still are embedded in a corrupt system. The police are in the pocket of the rich. People in John and Roosevelt's circles schmooze at fancy galas while children freeze on the street. I love the cut from the kids huddled in a doorway -- that even Laszlo walks past, because he knows he can't save them all -- to the out-of-touch wealthy at their fancy party, all the more so because some of those out-of-touch rich people are people we've come to love and in some ways admire ... but they're still living in a world very far removed from the world of the poor, that only can exist because of the city's wealth differential.
And yet - as the show also shows, having money and social privilege is the only way that people like Sara and Laszlo (a woman and a disabled man, respectively) can have even the amount of influence they have. Sara would never be able to do what she does if she didn't come from money. I feel like the show is fairly unapologetic about this - it doesn't tell you what to think so much as show you and let you draw your own conclusions. Sara has a beautiful house and a maid to help her dress, and without all of this, there was no way that even the small crack in the door that's open to her would be open. But she also works herself raw to keep that little crack open. It feels very honest and real; you can't ever quite relax and not think about it, but the show also doesn't shame its characters for being born what they were (while also not letting them relax and fail to rise above it - Laszlo tries to be better with the people he has power over, Sara refuses to accept the life of a society wife, John tries to be more than a louche playboy).
And on the flip side, money can't protect Willem Van Bergen from being railroaded by the cops and eventually shot because, when they needed a murderer, he was the first gay person they thought of. This is another misdirection thing that I really appreciated on the rewatch, because the first time around, of course, I thought all the clues pointed to him - but in reality only about half of them do, and it's all completely circumstantial. It's implied that he's not the greatest guy - there are rumors about him and the choir boys, and he hires teenage prostitutes. But he is certainly not a killer, and unlike the real killer, he's not into little kids and he doesn't seem to do anything except treat the prostitutes he hires nicely. He's just a spoiled rich kid who lives in a world where his wealth and privilege and family connections can't, in the end, save him.
I also feel like even the worst people on the show are treated with a degree of sympathy that makes them feel like people rather than cartoons. Even with someone objective terrible, like formerly-sergeant Connor, you get a few moments when it's genuinely hard not to feel bad for the guy (while also feeling that every horrible thing that happens to him is something he has coming).
And in the same way, the way that the sympathetic characters bounce off each other's broken edges leads them to be absolutely horrible sometimes. And yet, then they have these moments of transcendentally lovely empathy and connection, like Laszlo and Mary, or John and Laszlo in the woods. Everyone on this show needs and deserves a hug and a blanket and hot cocoa and some therapy with someone who isn't Laszlo.
As always, feel free to talk about any aspects you want in the comments!
no subject
I'm hoping we get more exploration of Sara's trauma that Laszlo--with his characteristic delicacy and tact--mentions, about her father's suicide, because while the show does a great job showing the kind of crushing pressure she's under just for trying to do her job in a world that doesn't want women to do anything, I also want her to get her fair share of personal angst, if that makes sense.
Interesting that Laszlo implicitly accepts Sara's calling him a coward, when he lists courage as one of the qualities Mary has that he lacks. That also feels like one of those embedded apologies that, you know, would work better if it were addressed to the actual affected person. But the whole Sara-Laszlo confrontation was really interesting and difficult and fraught, even before the slap, and I like that. It's just this really thorny tangle, because while Sara prying into his past this way--with newspaper clippings and a "oh, did I drop this sheet music?" setup--is awful, it's also, as she points out, just a different manifestation of the exact same psychological bullying Laszlo had done of her and John earlier. She lashes back in kind, whereas John just sort of accepts/avoids it. And I'm hoping that Laszlo--who seemed to be shocked by what he'd done and to understand Sara avoiding him afterwards--unpacks this even further than "I shouldn't have slapped her" and takes it to "I also shouldn't have done something to my friends that I clearly find very upsetting when it's done to me."
Then again, he will, alas, have other things on his mind in the immediate aftermath of 1x08, which I'm still heartbroken by. He and Mary had such intense, tender, weird, and deeply felt chemistry, and it was so great to see them so happy and effervescent. Which is why it could have lasted longer.
And in the same way, the way that the sympathetic characters bounce off each other's broken edges leads them to be absolutely horrible sometimes. And yet, then they have these moments of transcendentally lovely empathy and connection, like Laszlo and Mary, or John and Laszlo in the woods.
This is a perfect way of putting it. And I think it's only because they're awful to each other sometimes that those moments of loveliness and empathy hit so hard. That they're deeply flawed and hurting and not blameless makes it more powerful when they're able to connect with and love each other anyway and have these little moments together.
no subject
I just want someone to tell him he really is brave! You might have the world's worst coping mechanisms, Laszlo, but you're a better person than you think you are! *sob*
It's just this really thorny tangle, because while Sara prying into his past this way--with newspaper clippings and a "oh, did I drop this sheet music?" setup--is awful, it's also, as she points out, just a different manifestation of the exact same psychological bullying Laszlo had done of her and John earlier. She lashes back in kind, whereas John just sort of accepts/avoids it.
Yes, and I also think that in addition to dishing back at Laszlo what he dished out to her, it's also a manifestation of her own damage, on various levels - she's so powerless so much of the time that she has to seize what power and understanding she can, even when it means treating Laszlo in a way that is genuinely cruel. (And he is absolutely being a hypocrite, even though it's coming from a place of deep hurt. You can do this to your friends but you can't take it, can you, Laszlo?)
And I think it's only because they're awful to each other sometimes that those moments of loveliness and empathy hit so hard. That they're deeply flawed and hurting and not blameless makes it more powerful when they're able to connect with and love each other anyway and have these little moments together.
Yes!! I agree; I think those scenes wouldn't hit nearly as hard if you didn't get so many demonstrations of how broken they all are and how difficult it is for them to do things like apologize and treat each other gently. And then they do, and it's beautiful.
no subject
I really enjoyed when they left NYC - the change of scenery, and also most of them happened in daylight so it wasn't foggy or dark. Greenery and wildlife! The American West! Train journeys :D!
On a random note, Laszlo and John going down to DC and the Isaacsons going west boarded very different trains. Laszlo and John travelled first class with dining cars and everything, even on a comparatively short trip (Amtrak today between NYC-DC is about three hours); the Isaacsons were practically sitting knee-to-knee with other passengers.
Now I'm wondering - I don't actually know police/detective ranks in 19th century NYPD. Are Marcus and Lucius young for detective-sergeants?
I agree with what you're saying about class, and the show also makes a point that eg for the van Bergens (who I assume are basically the Vanderbilts, surely) while they exert power ultimately over the police force through political pressure etc, this by no means applies equally to all the members. I think Willem might have been okay if he'd stayed in the apartment and gone on to South America as his mother wanted. Connor (and his officers) go after Willem because of a combined homophobia and also Connor thinks Willem is genuinely the killer - shoddy police work, but he thinks eliminating Willem will cause the murders to stop. It's not a cover for what he's doing, he thinks he's solving two problems at once.
I was also impressed that they included Cyrus's niece and her anger/own feelings on the topic. Very loyal servants that the master rescued is definitely a whole stock character, and there's a thread of paternalism (and here, race) that plays into it all. Of course you save someone they should be devoted to you forever, would lay down their lives, etc. Which isn't intentional on Laszlo's part, but he doesn't question it either, etc. This is also a time when workers are mobilizing and starting to push back against working conditions esp. I wonder if that will come up more in the second season.
no subject
On a random note, Laszlo and John going down to DC and the Isaacsons going west boarded very different trains. Laszlo and John travelled first class with dining cars and everything, even on a comparatively short trip (Amtrak today between NYC-DC is about three hours); the Isaacsons were practically sitting knee-to-knee with other passengers.
Oh, that's a really good point about the (class-related) differences in their train journeys! Especially since the show was cutting back and forth between the scenes.
Connor (and his officers) go after Willem because of a combined homophobia and also Connor thinks Willem is genuinely the killer - shoddy police work, but he thinks eliminating Willem will cause the murders to stop. It's not a cover for what he's doing, he thinks he's solving two problems at once.
Oh, true! I didn't mean that he's just using it as an excuse. He (and the former chief guy) do genuinely think Willem is the killer. I think it hadn't hit me 'til the rewatch, though, that there's so little evidence linking Willem to the killings - it was a conclusion they jumped to and then ran with.
I was also impressed that they included Cyrus's niece and her anger/own feelings on the topic. Very loyal servants that the master rescued is definitely a whole stock character, and there's a thread of paternalism (and here, race) that plays into it all. Of course you save someone they should be devoted to you forever, would lay down their lives, etc. Which isn't intentional on Laszlo's part, but he doesn't question it either, etc.
Yeah, exactly! I mean, Laszlo genuinely means well, and he's clearly blindsided by her anger, but I really like that rather than getting defensive about it, he thinks about what she said and starts trying to make amends.
no subject
But of course, none of them really trained for this. They were doing it because the police wouldn't.
John struck me as deeply loyal from the get-go; he and Laszlo had had their differences, but he didn't let that stop him from going back to Laszlo and helping. What I didn't realize for several episodes was that Laszlo is also very loyal. He just doesn't know how to express it! He seems to do best with gestures, not talking.
I thought Sara was putting up with an awful lot with these two until she pulled the sheet music business on a stakeout, which is really when I realized she was as messed up as the rest of the them.
I did love the brothers heading out West. And the show is very cognizant of their lower social status: as Jews, in a family new to this country, who are not very well-off and want to make careers outside of their own circle. Working with Laszlo and the others when they're already vulnerable is risky for them; they could lose their careers! (I heard that s2 took so long partly because they wanted to be sure they got both actors for the brothers, and between that and the careers of the other principals, everything got very complicated.)
I don't even remember the mystery very well now. I remember the friendships and the love.
no subject
Yeah, they do have some amazing failures of common sense (THIS IS A BAD IDEA, I metaphorically yelled at the TV all throughout the using-the-teenager-as-bait plot) but I also really love that they're all so basically untrained and doing their best anyway. Even the ones who are technically actual police are untrained because of various forms of prejudice, so they're all doing their best with what they have to work with.
John struck me as deeply loyal from the get-go; he and Laszlo had had their differences, but he didn't let that stop him from going back to Laszlo and helping. What I didn't realize for several episodes was that Laszlo is also very loyal. He just doesn't know how to express it! He seems to do best with gestures, not talking.
Their attachment to each other is something that I didn't recognize at first, but watching from the beginning, it's surprising how evident it was now that I'm looking for signs of it. John definitely wears his heart on his sleeve a lot more than Laszlo does - and as you say, Laszlo does much better with actions, not words. Which is ironic for a person who makes a living as a therapist - therapist, heal thyself, indeed.
I heard that s2 took so long partly because they wanted to be sure they got both actors for the brothers, and between that and the careers of the other principals, everything got very complicated.
Awwww! I'm glad they put that much effort into it.
I don't even remember the mystery very well now. I remember the friendships and the love.
Yeah, that's by far what's sticking with me the most, too. I really didn't expect the show to be like that, going into it. From the first couple of episodes, I was expecting something much darker and sadder, and much less optimistic about people. (Well, at least based on season one. Still haven't started season two because I want to stay on this emotional high for a while, so I'm also avoiding spoilers.)