Entry tags:
Love language
So this is an Iron Fist meta post that grew out of a conversation ![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
sheron and I were having in chat today about a post on Tumblr that talks about different ways of showing love, which immediately we started applying to different characters in fandom. As you do.
The post is here and it's actually pretty cool, so I'll just summarize if you don't want to read the whole thing. Basically the post uses the lovely phrase "love language" for the different ways that people show love - not romantic necessarily (in fact the post is mainly talking about friendship) -- just love, in general: by touching, talking, doing things for other people, giving gifts, or spending time together. And it talks about how different people's love languages can be incompatible and people have to learn to show/give love across that kind of barrier.
I'm just going to quote the post's descriptions of the five kinds of "love language" under the cut (it's in Tumblr-ese, so translate to normal English XD). There are probably more than this, and most people kind of straddle several, but it is an interesting tool to have in your characterization toolbox, especially for characters who come down really hard in one category or another (e.g. we decided Neal Caffrey is a gifter, and so is Tony Stark), or absolutely suck at certain categories (like how some characters are touch-averse or wouldn't have a conversation about feelings if you tried to force them at gunpoint).
Types of Love Language (according to Tumblr):
TOUCH got a bro that likes to give high fives? Back slaps? Are they a hugger? Do they not blink an eye at cuddles?
QUALITY TIME this bro will sprint to spend every minute possible with you. Every second that you guys are together is a declaration of affection.
WORDS does your bro tell you how amazing and great and fantastic and wonderful you are all the time? Guess what…?
GIFTS do they buy you coffee? Snacks, energy drinks, spot you at the restaurant? Did that one key chain remind you of them? Ding ding!
ACTS are they always doing things for you? Ie: Nah bro, I got this, I can do that, need me to get anything for you, I can help with…?
PRO TIP - The way people show love is often how they receive love as well.
(sholio's side note: Although it doesn't have to be; it often is, but we also came up with several characters who seem to respond better to love delivered in a different way than they typically give it. Which I'm sure applies to real people too.)
So anyway, yeah, this immediately led to us trying to categorize characters, and I started talking to her about Iron Fist (as you do, when your head is in a brand new show brainspace), and I had an epiphany about late season one, and something spoilery that happens with Ward and Danny in 1x12. Which I'll talk about under the cut.
That's the episode where the Hand captures the Meachums to set a trap for Danny and force him to come save them, and it's also the episode in which Ward does a complete 180 on Danny. Now there are a lot of factors to that; I mean, he's just gone through drug detox and had his worldview turned inside out on a number of things, and having someone save your life will really change how you see a person.
But I think there's a specific reason why it had such an effect on Ward that it changed how he related to Danny from there to the end of the series, while it didn't similarly affect Joy -- I mean, she was relieved and delighted to see him, of course, but it didn't cause a sea change in the way they related to one another.
So when we were categorizing characters by love language, I decided that Ward falls really heavily into the "do-er" category, while Danny and Joy are both talkers (and Danny is a do-er also, but not quite as all-or-nothing about it as Ward is). Ward is geared really heavily towards showing love for his family by doing things for them and protecting them. Meanwhile Joy is on the "talking about love" end of things and this is one reason why she and Ward butt heads over his secretiveness so much. To her, it reads like he's putting up walls and shutting her out; to him, he's just obviously doing what he needs to do to protect her.
When Danny first shows up in New York, Ward slots him into "threat to family": an outsider. (And of course there's lots of personal issues going on there too -- his longstanding resentment of Danny, for one.) But mostly, because Ward is not geared towards talking about feelings, I just don't think he believes anything Danny says about thinking of the Meachums as family. Oh, it's not quite that he's consciously dismissing Danny or thinks that Danny is lying. It just doesn't sink in. Danny can tell Ward that he thinks of Ward and Joy as his family until he's blue in the face, but Ward doesn't get it.
Until Danny comes to save them.
Because that's what Ward himself would have done. That's his love language.
And that's the point when the penny drops for him. I mean, look at how astonished he looks when Danny walks into the penthouse. Ward really, truly did not think Danny was going to come. He didn't see any reason why Danny would come. And, rationally, at this point the Meachums have mostly just screwed with him, tried to steal his company, and tried to kill him, so it's not exactly unrealistic that Danny would leave them to die.
But to Danny, they're still family. And for Ward, seeing Danny demonstrate it (rather than just say it) accomplishes what all the talking in the world couldn't do: it makes it sink in, and it makes him realize that Danny is serious about the family thing. And at that point, on some level of Ward's subconscious, it seems like Danny flips over into the "family" category, and for him, family --> younger sibling --> must protect. And that's when he starts acting to protect Danny like he would Joy.
They might not be close yet; there's still a lot between them. But from there on out to the end of the season, he's in low-key protective mode with Danny -- warning him about Harold, trying to warn him away from the gunmen in the offices, basically working his ass off (while concussed!) to get up to the roof before Harold can kill Danny, and then ultimately shooting Harold to save Danny. (And for other complicated reasons as well, but that was certainly the impetus at the moment -- which, incidentally, was one of my favorite things about the finale: I loved that Ward got to be the one to deliver the killing blow to his abuser, but I also loved that it wasn't for the same revenge/catharsis/rage reasons that he killed Harold the first time. This time, it was because Harold was about to shoot Danny.)
As a nice corollary to all of this, I love that in the following scene, Danny is still performing "love" in a way that Ward understands: showing up to the cremation so he doesn't have to do it alone. That's the kind of thing that Ward gets on a visceral level, where verbal condolences just don't quite do it.
So yeah! Maybe it's not the only way to interpret those scenes, but it's a lens through which it all goes together beautifully.
Even if you're not into the Iron Fist meta-ing above, feel free to jump into the comments and psychoanalyze your favorite characters. What's their love language? Or yours?
sheron and I were having in chat today about a post on Tumblr that talks about different ways of showing love, which immediately we started applying to different characters in fandom. As you do.The post is here and it's actually pretty cool, so I'll just summarize if you don't want to read the whole thing. Basically the post uses the lovely phrase "love language" for the different ways that people show love - not romantic necessarily (in fact the post is mainly talking about friendship) -- just love, in general: by touching, talking, doing things for other people, giving gifts, or spending time together. And it talks about how different people's love languages can be incompatible and people have to learn to show/give love across that kind of barrier.
I'm just going to quote the post's descriptions of the five kinds of "love language" under the cut (it's in Tumblr-ese, so translate to normal English XD). There are probably more than this, and most people kind of straddle several, but it is an interesting tool to have in your characterization toolbox, especially for characters who come down really hard in one category or another (e.g. we decided Neal Caffrey is a gifter, and so is Tony Stark), or absolutely suck at certain categories (like how some characters are touch-averse or wouldn't have a conversation about feelings if you tried to force them at gunpoint).
Types of Love Language (according to Tumblr):
TOUCH got a bro that likes to give high fives? Back slaps? Are they a hugger? Do they not blink an eye at cuddles?
QUALITY TIME this bro will sprint to spend every minute possible with you. Every second that you guys are together is a declaration of affection.
WORDS does your bro tell you how amazing and great and fantastic and wonderful you are all the time? Guess what…?
GIFTS do they buy you coffee? Snacks, energy drinks, spot you at the restaurant? Did that one key chain remind you of them? Ding ding!
ACTS are they always doing things for you? Ie: Nah bro, I got this, I can do that, need me to get anything for you, I can help with…?
PRO TIP - The way people show love is often how they receive love as well.
(
sholio's side note: Although it doesn't have to be; it often is, but we also came up with several characters who seem to respond better to love delivered in a different way than they typically give it. Which I'm sure applies to real people too.)So anyway, yeah, this immediately led to us trying to categorize characters, and I started talking to her about Iron Fist (as you do, when your head is in a brand new show brainspace), and I had an epiphany about late season one, and something spoilery that happens with Ward and Danny in 1x12. Which I'll talk about under the cut.
That's the episode where the Hand captures the Meachums to set a trap for Danny and force him to come save them, and it's also the episode in which Ward does a complete 180 on Danny. Now there are a lot of factors to that; I mean, he's just gone through drug detox and had his worldview turned inside out on a number of things, and having someone save your life will really change how you see a person.
But I think there's a specific reason why it had such an effect on Ward that it changed how he related to Danny from there to the end of the series, while it didn't similarly affect Joy -- I mean, she was relieved and delighted to see him, of course, but it didn't cause a sea change in the way they related to one another.
So when we were categorizing characters by love language, I decided that Ward falls really heavily into the "do-er" category, while Danny and Joy are both talkers (and Danny is a do-er also, but not quite as all-or-nothing about it as Ward is). Ward is geared really heavily towards showing love for his family by doing things for them and protecting them. Meanwhile Joy is on the "talking about love" end of things and this is one reason why she and Ward butt heads over his secretiveness so much. To her, it reads like he's putting up walls and shutting her out; to him, he's just obviously doing what he needs to do to protect her.
When Danny first shows up in New York, Ward slots him into "threat to family": an outsider. (And of course there's lots of personal issues going on there too -- his longstanding resentment of Danny, for one.) But mostly, because Ward is not geared towards talking about feelings, I just don't think he believes anything Danny says about thinking of the Meachums as family. Oh, it's not quite that he's consciously dismissing Danny or thinks that Danny is lying. It just doesn't sink in. Danny can tell Ward that he thinks of Ward and Joy as his family until he's blue in the face, but Ward doesn't get it.
Until Danny comes to save them.
Because that's what Ward himself would have done. That's his love language.
And that's the point when the penny drops for him. I mean, look at how astonished he looks when Danny walks into the penthouse. Ward really, truly did not think Danny was going to come. He didn't see any reason why Danny would come. And, rationally, at this point the Meachums have mostly just screwed with him, tried to steal his company, and tried to kill him, so it's not exactly unrealistic that Danny would leave them to die.
But to Danny, they're still family. And for Ward, seeing Danny demonstrate it (rather than just say it) accomplishes what all the talking in the world couldn't do: it makes it sink in, and it makes him realize that Danny is serious about the family thing. And at that point, on some level of Ward's subconscious, it seems like Danny flips over into the "family" category, and for him, family --> younger sibling --> must protect. And that's when he starts acting to protect Danny like he would Joy.
They might not be close yet; there's still a lot between them. But from there on out to the end of the season, he's in low-key protective mode with Danny -- warning him about Harold, trying to warn him away from the gunmen in the offices, basically working his ass off (while concussed!) to get up to the roof before Harold can kill Danny, and then ultimately shooting Harold to save Danny. (And for other complicated reasons as well, but that was certainly the impetus at the moment -- which, incidentally, was one of my favorite things about the finale: I loved that Ward got to be the one to deliver the killing blow to his abuser, but I also loved that it wasn't for the same revenge/catharsis/rage reasons that he killed Harold the first time. This time, it was because Harold was about to shoot Danny.)
As a nice corollary to all of this, I love that in the following scene, Danny is still performing "love" in a way that Ward understands: showing up to the cremation so he doesn't have to do it alone. That's the kind of thing that Ward gets on a visceral level, where verbal condolences just don't quite do it.
So yeah! Maybe it's not the only way to interpret those scenes, but it's a lens through which it all goes together beautifully.
Even if you're not into the Iron Fist meta-ing above, feel free to jump into the comments and psychoanalyze your favorite characters. What's their love language? Or yours?
no subject
no subject
And yeah, I was telling sholio last night that Dean must be 'act of service' but I hadn't considered the 'quality time' as a way he'd like to receive love which, in retrospect, is absolutely true.
no subject
And yeah, I think in general society makes us think that there are only one or two ways to give and receive love. Knowing this is a real game changer in thinking about how people interact, too.
no subject
no subject
When I do character sheets for my characters, I include a love language section, which is hilarious because 90% of the time my characters don't get to HAVE relationships. (They're usually too busy blowing things up/getting blown up...)
no subject
no subject
no subject
But anyway, yeah, I think this is something I'm going to take into account when I write from now on. I'm seeing all sorts of possibilities for it. :)
no subject
Also, I'm glad Ward got some good stuff to do, as he was the only way I got through season one.
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
LOL
no subject
no subject
I got an almost equal split between quality time/acts/touch... which sort of fits?
One memory that comes to mind: I was maybe twelve when my older cousin (who I adored and really respected) told me that touching people in public (hugs etc) was "just not done". So I stopped doing that or kept the physical contact very short... and I didn't realize how much it hurt until a guy from my aikido group gave me this massive, long, best hug ever and told me it was okay to hug. Not kidding, I cried - I was so happy, relieved and grateful. (Still so grateful for that moment). Been happily hugging friends and family ever since :D
no subject
no subject
Like I can imagine in mil-SF, allies whose flavor is Gifts, sending shipment of munitions or an experimental new spaceship to aid their ally. Or if they favor Acts, one spacecaptain volunteers for that boring or dangerous mission so her friend/colleague doesn't have to do it.
The YA WWII spy thriller Code Name Verity's central relationship is friendship between the 2 heroines who spend about half of the book physically apart and out of direct communication with each other, and they still manage some Acts and a couple snatches of quality Time, and one of them does a whole lot of Words.
I've just been reading some Brother Cadfael medieval mysteries/romances. The author writes several characters as gravitating toward a love language that's not on the contemporary list, which I'd call something like Trust or Reliability or maybe Honesty. It's presented as a sign of caring for someone to be very self-consistent in their dealings, to rely on or be able to be relied on. It's also presented as honorable and admirable, of course, to be generally trustworthy--just like it's generally considered admirable to be generous (Gifts), helpful (Acts), kindspoken (Words) etc. But there's an extra message of, like being able to tell someone A loves someone B because A was SO constant and reliable, even if it was inconvenient or unflattering or even brought risk to the person they cared about and wanted to impress/show love.
I'm kind of partial to that one myself.
no subject
And yeah, I hadn't really thought about it outside a relationship context - friendship or romantic - but you're right, it applies to all sorts of human interactions, not just the exceedingly personal. :D
This is just such a fascinating way to look at writing!
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
But otherwise, yeah, it was really fun to talk about how the characters fit. Especially Peggy & Jack. XD
no subject
But yeah! I think Jack is especially interesting, like we were talking about, because first of all the discrepancy between giving/receiving "love language" is really fascinating with him (giving = deeds, receiving = words) and also because it meshes so well with Peggy's own models for that kind of thing and with how both of them are pretty high on the emotional-intelligence scale, so they're able to figure out it -- and also use it to hurt each other.
I really love thinking about this. :D
no subject
For instance, Tony is a Gifter because Tony has massive fucking self-worth issues: Tony thinks that Gifts are the only things he has to give that have any worth.
By inclination, both giving and receiving Tony is 100% Words and Quality Time, totally straddled. But he assumes that his presence has very limited value or worth to other people, because he knows he's Obnoxious and Irritating and has turned this into a perverse point of pride, so he gives gifts compulsively as a way to make up for it. This is why Pepper gets a fucking absurd huge bunny because OH GOD WHAT IS AN ICON FOR LOVE I KNOW HUGE BUNNY.
But you actually know that Tony loves you (in one way or another) when he will JUMP at the opportunity to spend time with you, and will spontaneously and unexpectedly tell you flat out that you are awesome but also will backhandedly compliment you CONSTANTLY.
And then you have Bucky where frankly if he did not have trauma he would move through all of them to give because his expressive love-language is "whatever gets the results that I want", which is the other person doing his RECEPTIVE love language which is touch. (Which sucks for him right now FOR ABSOLUTE.)
no subject
no subject
no subject
And it's especially fun with all the noodling I'm doing in my D:BH AU, where the majority of my main characters were literally designed for certain tasks, and are navigating having all of these inclinations and presets that were chosen for them, and whether they want to embrace those identities or rebel against them. And how it's expressed in how they relate to each other.
Like, one of them was designed to be a police enforcement unit, and she hates everything about the fact that she's a designed entity, but her love language is still very, very much I'M GOING TO PROTECT YOU. DON'T TALK TO ME. JUST LET ME MAKE YOU SAFE. YOU ARE NOW SAFE. DEAL WITH IT. And another one of them was not designed with any consideration that he would ever receive love, because he's supposed to be functional and that's it, and ends up really, really needing things explicitly spelled out for him in words because if he has to interpret things from behavior he ends up spinning because he can kinda go "Okay, I guess there's about an 87% certainty that X is responding positively for SOME reason" but then cannot understand why. ...which makes it especially painful that one of his best friends makes T-Rex look good at talking about emotions.
...I personally tend to be keyed toward giving gifts and acts, receiving words, and enjoying touch both ways, but I noticed something interesting, a while ago. And that's because the community I'm in has a lot of talk about service-orientation. What I came to realize is that I'm very cattish: I really like giving people gifts and doing things for them, but only as spontaneous expressions of affection. If it becomes something expected, it loses its meaning for me and becomes transactional. For example, I gift people things constantly, but when gifting holidays roll around, it's usually a massive source of stress and I get much less out of it. I have a friend who, whenever he comes over, I'll make tea and usually have some fruits or cheeses or chocolate set out to nibble on, but if that ever became a condition of our relationship, I'd nope out so hard.
no subject
Anyway, it's fascinating! And I get what you're saying about expectation as well. I think that's true for almost everything on the list, probably, for most people - I love giving gifts but struggle with obligation gifts like for holidays.
no subject