![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Entry tags:
(no subject)
I cannot BELIEVE that Punisher and Iron Fist are currently my favorite parts of the Netflix Marvel universe. HELP. That being said, somebody come flail with me about Frank and David and Ward and Colleen!
I haven't seen the second season of Iron Fist yet, so nobody spoil me, please!! THE FIRST ONE THO'. It started out uneven and sagged somewhat in the middle, but it was dynamite by the end. Or at least, it was delivering exactly the feels I wanted it to deliver. And the plot twists were killer.
And Punisher is just some of the best damn TV I've seen in awhile.
And they're both really freaking hard to recommend to people, because both of them are essentially a laundry list of Stuff Fandom Doesn't Like (in some ways) and yet total fannish catnip in others.
Why does my heart want what it wants??
I haven't seen the second season of Iron Fist yet, so nobody spoil me, please!! THE FIRST ONE THO'. It started out uneven and sagged somewhat in the middle, but it was dynamite by the end. Or at least, it was delivering exactly the feels I wanted it to deliver. And the plot twists were killer.
And Punisher is just some of the best damn TV I've seen in awhile.
And they're both really freaking hard to recommend to people, because both of them are essentially a laundry list of Stuff Fandom Doesn't Like (in some ways) and yet total fannish catnip in others.
Why does my heart want what it wants??
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
I'd love to see Karen meet the Liebermans and I am annoyed that there is literally NO fic with that premise that isn't basically "David and Sarah matchmake Frank and Karen" followed by 8K of shmoopy romance in which the Liebermans are nowhere to be seen.
no subject
What sort of story would you want from that premise? I mean "other than that." ;)
no subject
Right?? It really doesn't feel like she's in it as little as she is.
What sort of story would you want from that premise? I mean "other than that." ;)
Haha. Hmmm. I think it's mostly just that I'm curious about the possibilities of having the people on the show who know Frank best get to meet each other. Not really comparing notes, as such, but just ... I think the reason why I haven't written something like this is because I don't really know exactly what I'd want from it, except to have the different spheres of Frank's life collide. (Which is another narrative trope I'm really into, by the way - sort of an auxiliary to identity porn, I guess, with character who have distinct friend sets/different parts of their life that never interact; I'm really into seeing the two sides of their life come into contact with each other.)
The thing about Karen and the Liebermans that makes this a little different from how this trope often goes is that they aren't really from different walks of life. They're both from the same ordinary-suburbia kind of background that is the opposite of Frank's current lifestyle. So they wouldn't really clash, exactly. I wonder if they'd be wary of each other, or if they'd insta-bond and then Frank would have to deal with three people ganging up on him to make sure he doesn't get himself killed.
no subject
Frank would have to deal with three people ganging up on him to make sure he doesn't get himself killed.
I would read the hell out of that.
no subject
no subject
Convince me plz. There must be competent characters yes?
no subject
I sort of want to talk you into watching it but I also think the poor life choices would drive you around the bend. It doesn't have a very Sheron-friendly sort of vibe to it.
no subject
no subject
You could always give the first episode or two a try and see if it drives you bonkers. No need to stick with it if you're not enjoying it. But you might like it!
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
Although I don't have anything specific in mind (that we haven't already talked about) - any Punisher thoughts currently crowding your brain? :D
no subject
no subject
What kind of roles were you thinking for the different characters in these? (Assuming it doesn't tip your hand about AUs you might conceivably write anonymously in the future ...)
no subject
Haha, I think I'm liable to be less than totally mysterious on this fandom anyway. I was really taken with two somewhat similar concepts, one steampunk Wild West and one post-apocalyptic but also Western-flavored, of Frank as a lone wanderer/gunslinger and Leo as the lost girl he reluctantly takes in who ends up becoming sort of his squire and keeping his weapons in good repair, while he murders the hell out of all his enemies while trying to keep her out of it as much as possible.
There's a lot of western tropes that would fit nicely with the characters. In the more civilized steampunk version, you could even still have Madani as the sheriff and Karen as the reporter.
no subject
Hahaha. Point! But
... and wowwww, True Grit with Frank and Leo! GIVE ME IT. *grabbyhands* (That was from my request letter, wasn't it? Or something you came up with too? Anyway, I think I remember requesting it, but maybe I'm getting my letter mixed up with yours or Scioscribe's ...)
That particular character relationship (grizzled reluctant mentor and angry teenage girl) is one of my big narrative kinks, and Frank and Leo in the show actually kinda hit some of those buttons, so this is something I would be absolutely 1000% here for.
no subject
Yes, you should!
The sff-y True Grit was from both of our letters, I think. (Blade of the Immortal does it with an immortal ronin.) The Frank-and-Leo interactions were pure gold. Fixing drains! Discussing books! Frank talking her through her escape!
I didn't think to prompt it, but it would have only taken a very small canon divergence to have had Leo having to crash in the bunker for a while. That would have been amazing and hilarious. I can't decide if Frank and Leo would have ganged up on David, or if David and Leo would have ganged up on Frank, or if they'd have alternated.
no subject
YES, I love Blade of the Immortal! (Though I haven't read it in like ... 10 years ... I think someone told me recently that it actually finished up, so I need to go pick up the volumes I don't have and find out how it ends!) I could pretty much make a list of those kinds of relationships from different media, I love it so much - with The Professional as my ur-example and the one I probably imprinted on, way back when. I would absolutely love to see it with Frank and Leo!
I didn't think to prompt it, but it would have only taken a very small canon divergence to have had Leo having to crash in the bunker for a while. That would have been amazing and hilarious.
Haha, that sounds AMAZING. I want it.
I can't decide if Frank and Leo would have ganged up on David, or if David and Leo would have ganged up on Frank, or if they'd have alternated.
I vote for "alternated." Frank thinks it's hilarious (and cheerfully adds his 2 cents) when Leo starts nagging her dad about not sitting in front of a computer 24/7 and putting on pants ... and then Team Lieberman gets on his case about eating something other than an MRE every 2 days and maybe getting his wounds stitched up and getting more sleep.
no subject
no subject
Have you watched Defenders? I think the tone of that very much matched IF rather than the darker shows and was all the more enjoyable for it.
no subject
AND ALL OF THIS. YES. COLLEEN!!! I was really not expecting to be as sold on Colleen and Danny's relationship as I was, but dammit, "falling in love on opposite sides" is apparently my kryptonite and I really enjoyed it, as well as the reveal on her, which was one of the things in the show that I absolutely did NOT see coming and I really enjoyed watching the fallout as she struggles with her conflicting loyalties. And yeah, I love how she tries to be all responsible and Griffyndor-ish and making the world a better place one street kid at a time, but is really just a little ball of anger issues and "I'll fight you! I'll fight your dog! I'll fight you AND your dog
for money!" Basically she's great and I love her. ♥no subject
Danny himself I think is a fantastic supporting character - he is great in Colleen's story, he's great with Jeri (J-Money!), he's a foil for Davos, he jumps right into all the Meachum family shenanigans - how much did I love Harold calling Danny his good son after all poor Ward had done? But he's not quite enough to make me love him as a lead/central character, yet. Some of that is the actor, some of it is the writing, but he's definitely grown on me, which I did not expect. Also, Matt being so grossly awful to his friends and full of lies in Daredevil S2 makes Danny look quite delightful by comparison.
Definitely watch Defenders after S1 of everyone's shows and before S3 of Daredevil or S2 of Luke Cage! The Danny/Luke and Colleen/Misty relationships start up there and are worth watching. Also, terrific female villain. Jessica Jones S2 is more separate, so it doesn't really matter what order you watch that in.
no subject
Matt being so grossly awful to his friends and full of lies in Daredevil S2 makes Danny look quite delightful by comparison.
SEASON 2 MATT OH MY GOD. S2 of Daredevil is directly responsible for me dropping the Defenders 'verse for quite awhile (well, that and JJ was a little too dark for me - I ended up writing off the whole 'verse as "too dark" and then getting sucked back in after several people recommended Punisher to me; maybe I'm just in a slightly different headspace now). S2 MATT THOUGH. I hope he's less of a dick in S3 and that S2 turns out to be that "dark night of the soul" time that the whole group had to go through in order to get to better teamy times ahead. *fingers crossed*
But yeah, I agree with you that Danny - though I do like him! - works better as a foil for other people than he does as a lead character. In fact I wonder if that is part of why Iron Fist feels so ensembly to me (which was one of the things I liked about it); Danny is a character who tends to take a backseat to the characters around him, or lean on them a lot, so the whole show - to me, anyway - felt more like everyone's story than like Danny's story. He's also explicitly looking for connection, in a way none of the other Netflix lead characters are; I mean, they ALL need it, and they eventually get it (more or less, I'm looking at you, MATT) but it's really one of the driving forces in Danny's life, seeking connections with other people - reaching out to the Meachums, reaching out to Colleen. In most of the other Netflix shows, the protagonist is essentially dragged kicking and screaming out of their self-imposed isolation by people who keep trying to be friends with them (well, maybe not Luke Cage so much), but in Danny's storyline, he's the one who reaches out and pulls people into his orbit and keeps trying to be friends with them even when they're the ones backing away.
Actually, Iron Fist in general is about that, I guess, that search for connection and drive to get closer to other people - it's the main factor in the Meachums' storyline, it's a big part of Colleen's (seeking connection with the kids and missing her surrogate family), and even Davos comes to New York because of his friendship with Danny (mostly). It's definitely a factor in all of the Defenders-verse shows - reaching out, bonding, making connections - but this one might be about that more than the other ones are, as a theme.
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
Punisher is about a guy who lost everything, isolated himself, and basically gave up, getting dragged against his will into caring about and protecting people again. Choice bits include: a ton of forced domesticity with Frank - the protagonist - and his presumed-dead, on-the-run co-protagonist living in a bunker together (if I had to pick a show to be an odd-couple buddy comedy, it would NOT have been this show, and yet), and Frank getting adopted by the (supposedly) dead guy's family and kids. Essentially it's about Frank giving up on life and then getting re-humanized by this little family that he tries to help.
Iron Fist is sort of the opposite of that; the protagonist is an optimistic kind of guy who tries to make friends with everybody and in general, despite getting smacked down a lot, this ultimately pays off for him. Choice bits include: a really lovely romance (I adore the main couple in this; they're so delightful), a very satisfying redemption arc for one character, and some surprise twists I genuinely did not see coming.
And they both have a lot of hurt/comfort and generally are about little groups of people learning to care about each other and take care of each other - all the stuff I'm into. :D
Potential dark/triggery stuff: Punisher includes a number of explicit torture scenes, and part of the main plot of Iron Fist includes a child abuse plotline (of the manipulative/emotional variety, not sexual).
no subject
no subject
no subject
I wasn't even going to give Punisher a chance, but it was recommended to me by a couple of people who really are not into grimdark stuff, and I watched it and was completely blown away by how different it was from my expectations. It is REALLY violent - like brutal violence, torture, way more than I'm used to seeing on most of the shows that I watch. But it's also funny, adorable, and sweet. Like I was saying above, part of the show is just an odd-couple buddy comedy with Frank and his co-protagonist working together to take down the bad guys. It was really fun.
no subject
no subject
no subject