sholio | ...hmm

but does anyone else get frustrated when you go to the trouble of tracking down a link to respond to someone's story request at sgastoryfinders, and they never bother to answer back

Yes. I think it's rude. Although, to be fair, some people just edit the main post to say thanks, esp. if there are multiple correct responses. Of course, the person who tracked down the link probably doesn't see it....

I'm even fine with the OP just editing the post -- all it takes is *some* kind of acknowledgment that they read their comments. If I'm curious enough whether it actually *was* the story I linked, I'm certainly willing to go and look. What gets to me is total silence on the part of the other person; did they even bother to look at the comments that they got?

I think that's rude. Someone helped you, acknowledge it. I'm almost getting to the point of wanting to capslock shout why are people in fandom if they don't want to interact with anybody?

Well, there are always going to be a lot of lurkers, or people who only occasionally drop into discussions, or people who have to drop out of discussions because they don't have the time ... I've done all of those on occasion. But if someone goes out of their way to do you a favor, isn't it polite to at least acknowledge that they're talking to you?

I think this is a special case and lurking doesn't enter into it because it takes the opposite of lurking to float a request for a story you have lost.
You are actively asking for *help*.
Then when some one finds it for you, or at least their best guess based on your description, they deserve an acknowledgment. I am seriously LJ challenged and even I can edit my post to say found! or reply to the comment to say thanks, but that's not the one.

I think it's very rude and shows a lack of class. It's also very irritating. How hard is it to reply with a "thank you"?

I've seen people who DID reply w/thank you get their butt chewed because they didn't also put the story link into the main post. Personally, I thought THAT was incredibly rude.

Well, I don't think there's any obligation to put the link in the post, but I am always a bit wtf at people who edit the post only to say "the link is in the comments". I mean...what is the point of that? If you're going to the trouble of editing the post, why not put the link in?

I wouldn't bitch someone out about it, but I do tend to question their intelligence. :p

I'm guilty of this. I dn't know how to put the link in the post :(

You can just copy and paste the link directly like this:

http://friendshipper.livejournal.com/108294.html

Or

<a href="http://friendshipper.livejournal.com/108294.html">title of the fic</a>

kyuuketsukirui beat me to it. :) You can just copy what's in the address bar of the window with the fic and paste it into your post. And you edit the post by clicking the edit button or the little pencil icon. (Feel free to ignore me if that's overly basic, but I wanted to cover all the bases. :)

Heh, I've seen that, and I wondered the same thing! Actually, the thought hadn't occurred to me until reading the comment underneath this one that some people might not know about the copy-pasting URLs thing -- though I know that quite a few people don't know how to make an HTML link.

... back in MY day, we wrote our HTML by hand! Uphill! In the snow! And we liked it!

There's another way?

See

kyuuketsukirui's explanation above this comment. You can either copy-paste the URL, or write a line of HTML that turns the name of the fic into a link.

I meant, there's a way of producing HTML besides coding by hand?

(Yes, I know there is, but once I learn one way of doing something, that's the way I do it forever. If left to my own devices, I'd own a clock radio and a 13" black-and-white TV and steal wifi from neighbors. So, wrt HTML - I made up a web page on Dec. 31, 1994 which hasn't changed much since (http://web.mit.edu/hwebb/www/home.html) because with my last name, and where I was at the time, I kind of had to. And if I didn't need it that day I've pretty much gotten by without it ever since.)

Oh, sorry! Ha! I misunderstood.

Yeah; I learned rudimentary HTML in 1995 and I still prefer to write it all out by hand, even though it would probably be quicker to let a program assist me. I don't know if Luddite is quite the word for me -- techno-Luddite, perhaps -- but I am definitely slow to change.

Yeah, I've seen that, and I agree that it's ridiculous to respond to someone who thanks you by bitching at them. It's a courtesy and a time-saver for everyone else if they DO edit the link in, but if you're browsing the posts and see that there are 5 or 6 comments already, it's only common sense to check and see if the story you were going to mention is already mentioned by someone else. There's no reason why they HAVE to edit it in (although it IS a comm rule that they're supposed to, I think).

Yeah ... it doesn't take more than a minute, f'r pete's sake.

... although, having said that, I'm horribly behind on answering feedback -- mostly because I try to answer with more than just a mere "thank you" but actually respond to their post, and it takes me forever! But I do try to get there eventually. I guess all I'm looking for is some acknowledgment that they noticed me talking to them.

Yeah, but you've always rocked on this! Any time I've left you a review you've always responded with something that was actually heartfelt, like we were having a conversation, that's one of the reasons I love your fic! You are such an excellent writer and you take the reviews seriously, I really, really love that!

Court

Oh ... thank you! That makes me so happy. I really do try; if someone's taken the time to write down their thoughts about my story, I try to respond to what they actually said rather than just "thanks for the comment". To know that it's appreciated ... that makes me so very happy to hear!

(But it does make me chronically late with feedback! *looks nervously at comments waiting to be answered*)

I've had that happen too, sometimes it might take me a day or two to reply, but I agree. I get the same way when people post fic on thier LJs and you comment on the story and they reply...I think its rude.

BTW I've had vistors all week ehre so I still haven't had time to track down that DVD with Joe's Q&A but I'll try later this week.

when people post fic on thier LJs and you comment on the story and they reply

You mean DON'T reply, right?

I'm actually pretty easygoing about that -- I agree that it's a courtesy to reply back and a discourtesy not to, but I don't usually stress it if someone doesn't (although, since I usually try to leave detailed feedback, I must admit I like to get a nod in return).

Still, I do try to reply to all my feedback, even if it takes awhile. There have been some discussions recently that I've abandoned for lack of time or interest, and that's one reason why I haven't been doing feedback posts on the last few episodes -- I figure that if I don't have the time for a discussion, I shouldn't start one, eh?

I think I've gotten a little less conscientious about responding to every single post I receive in recent months because there have been so many times I've commented in someone else's discussion and not gotten a reply -- I think it's a habit that I'm picking up simply because so many people do it. This is a good reminder to myself not to get that lazy.

I meant DON'T reply..of course there's no edit key just a delete one..sigh

It takes me a while too, but I will reply. Since there are SO many lurkers out there, I think replying is just a nice nod as you said and I try to leave detailed FB as well.

On the DVD front I don't like seeing Joe misquoted by accident when I have the actual con on DVD.

On the DVD front I don't like seeing Joe misquoted by accident when I have the actual con on DVD.

Ah, gotcha. Well, it'll be interesting to see what the original is!

Regarding feedback, one thing I still haven't really gotten a handle on, is ff.net feedback. I spent so many years on ff.net when you really didn't have an easy way to reply to people that I've never gotten in the habit of it. I try to answer back if someone gives me a really awesome, detailed feedback, but usually I don't answer like I do on LJ.

Yeah, ff.net is odd..I used to call it "the pit" when I wrote in other fandoms, but SGA seems a whole heck of a lot better. LJ to me has always meant 'interactive' its a community, communities mean well being active at least in regards to replying to comments and everything else is all up in the air.

ff.net I tend to reply when its something other then "cool" 'great job" or 'update soon'. :-P

I should go to bed, I'm being grumpy...lol

There's always been good fic on ff.net in pretty much every fandom, it's just a matter of finding it. Having gotten into ff.net before it had the reputation it does now, I was a little startled when I moved into LJ fandom and discovered how poorly it's regarded in the fandom at large -- a lot of people either won't read fic on ff.net on general principles, or are startled when you rec something there because they don't expect there's anything good.

I think you make a good distinction there, between an archive (which is what ff.net is) and a community, which is what LJ is -- and maybe that's why I feel guilty for not replying to any feedback I receive on LJ, where I sort of consider it an optional thing on ff.net.

In some of my older stories, I used to thank my reviewers by name in the body of my story, back before it was possible to do PMs on ff.net. Thinking back on it, I think I've gotten sloppier about it over the years, and I really *do* need to do something about that.

I try to reply to all feedback - even if it's only 'thanks, glad you liked it' - but it doesn't bother me when others don't reply to feedback I've left. Not everyone has the time, and some might not have figured out how to do it!

It does bug me a bit that on Wraithbait, Jumper Bay and Atlantica, as far as I can tell, the response goes onto the review page but an email isn't sent to the reviewer so they don't know that I've thanked them, and if I leave a review I have to remember who, which story etc and look up later to see if they've left a response, which I can never be bothered to do! Oh well...

Yeah, gotta agree with you on ff.net, the fandoms over there can be very strange. It's such a mix of random things, when I leave a review there, I leave a review, but the person above and below me leave the random "this is so cool, update soon plez!" misspelling and all. Some reviews don't even make sense. :D

The SGA community is very cool on ff.net, the other communities vary, some do alright, some not so much.

Court

p.s. no worries on the DVD as far as I'm concerned; it'd be interesting to know, but I'm not wild to know, either!

I've never had that happen, but yeah, I'd think that was rude. You're asking people to do you a favor, the least you can do is say thank you (whether it's the right link or not).

Yeah, that's the thing! I'm a lot less bothered if I, say, jump into a discussion on a Metafandom post or something. There, I haven't been invited and I know the OP might have lots of other things to do than respond to me. But if they *ask* for help, and you *give* them help, it just seems like common courtesy to get a nod in reply.

The lack of common courtesy in this fandom continues to baffle me, actually. It's not just the posts on storyfinders, although of course it's annoying if your efforts go by unacknowledged. There are some people who seem to be actually proud when they can kick someone, preferably when they're already on the ground. I keep seeing that, and it gets vicious so fast, and I just don't get it.

This is the first fandom I've actively participated in instead of just lurking, so I'm not sure if this behaviour isn't just normal. But I'm constantly bewildered by the attitudes I see.

I've been in a number of different fandoms, but it's next to impossible to compare between them. They're just all so utterly different. I generally think of SGA as a relatively sane, pleasant fandom compared to some of the ones I've seen. (The worst ever? Mainstream comics fandom. OH GOD. There are definitely sane and pleasant people in it, but they're drowned out by the trolling and idiocy and personality cliques and general awfulness.) On the other hand, I have seen the behavior you describe, too, and I know people who've left the fandom because they didn't feel welcome in it. Since I haven't been on LJ much outside the realm of SGA fandom, I have no idea what the rest of LJ looks like -- if it's better, worse, about the same. And I don't really know about the non-LJ areas of SGA fandom, either.

I do feel like the more compartmentalized a fandom is, the happier the little enclaves tend to be and the harder it is for trolls or unpleasant fannish behavior to migrate between them. In that way, I think LJ tends to make wank more likely to occur, since there's so much contact between different and, sometimes, mutually exclusive parts of the fandom.

>>but does anyone else get frustrated ... story or not?

Simple answer: yes. *g*

If this would be a verbal conversation between to persons:

"Do you know which story it is that has xxx?"

"I think that's xxx by xxx."

then there *would* most likely be a verbal response from the person who asked to the person who answered. It would just feel natural to respond either with a quick "yes, thank you." or a "no, I don't think that's it". And if there wouldn't be such a response, I'm pretty sure the person who answered would ask again "Did you *hear* me? I think it's xxx."

Simply because the dialog feels not finished if there isn't a confirmation that the answer was not only given but also received.

So yes, I think it's quite naturally to become frustrated if there's no response to your answer cause it's not only a lack of curtesy but also a case of "violating" of what we perceive as proper communication/conversation. It just doesn't feel "right" if it stays "open". :-)

Oh, that's a good insight -- that the dialogue feels incomplete if there's no answer. Which is, yeah, kinda the feeling that I get.

I think it's rude of them not to respond - I would if it were me.

I don't respond to all the comments I get, it depends what the comment is about. If it's a review, I respond. If it's a question or a debate, I respond. If it's just a general comment, it depends on the situation (it's not always expected).

But if I post somewhere (whether lj, a yahoo group or a forum) and asked a question, I always try to thank those who reply - it's only common decency - and if it involves links I try to provide them (though not everyone knows how to do that).

Yeah ... I think there *is* a difference between actively soliciting a reply and simply chiming into an existing discussion with a comment that doesn't necessarily call for a response. I do try to respond to all the comments I get that need a response, but not all of them do.

On the other hand, there are a couple of people whose journals I've basically stopped commenting in, because they NEVER respond to their comments. I can understand not answering comments if you're busy or have a lot of them, but it does kinda seem like they're not looking for a dialogue, so there's no point, really, in trying to have one.

Yes, it does bother me. It bothers me in any community that is a fic finding community, but more so in the SGA community because it's so incredibly huge and to go through all that work and to not at least get a "hey" or even an "f-off" something.

I know where you're coming from. I agree.

Court

It does just seem like basic courtesy to respond! In most situations, I can see why someone might not reply, but if you've specifically asked for a response and then don't acknowledge it ... that's really odd.

...hmm

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