Dresden Files: total WTF fanwank theory

[sholio]

So, right now I'm halfway through Small Favor and also kinda-sorta reading parts of Turn Coat, because for some reason on this re-read I am pretty far gone for Thomas/Justine and I needed MOAR. (Though I suspect Turn Coat is going to be a hard book to get all the way through, due to the general soul-crushing trauma of That One Spoilery Thing.)


Oh man, though ... only having read Turn Coat once, re-reading that scene where Justine tells Harry that Thomas loves him and that she thinks of him as family, knowing what happens later ... it's about equal parts heartmelt and total OUCH. These books, oh. *flails*

Anyway. The Swords. For all I know, this is a thought that half the fandom has already had (and for all I know, maybe we've actually discussed it in my past Dresden Files discussions when I went through the series the first time; I've forgotten most of what we talked about), but my brain claims it's new, anyway. I've just read the part of Small Favor in which Harry's talking to the Knights about Shiro being descended from the last king of Okinawa, and it comes up that the other two (at that time) Sword-holders are both descended from royalty as well. So Harry theorizes that it's a prerequisite, or at least something to narrow his search a bit.

I'm not convinced it's actually a hard-and-fast prerequisite (for one thing, as Sanya says, if you go back far enough, most people have some royalty in them somewhere). But you know who in the books is actual, literal royalty, and is also, perhaps not coincidentally in the grand scheme of things, the first person that Harry goes and talks to right after Sanya tells him that all he has to do now is to find a real live prince or princess.

Thomas.

He's literally a prince (the son of a king). And one of his main fighting weapons, probably the one he uses most next to his various gigantic guns, is a sword -- his saber. So at the very least he knows how to use one.

And then there's that bit way back in Blood Rites when Thomas quotes Corinthians at Harry: "Faith, hope and love; and the greatest of these is love." The context is completely unrelated to the Swords, but those are the names of the Swords too. And while it's been occasionally implied that Murphy might be the one to pick up Fidelacchius (Faith), there has been no hint yet as to who might be the new wielder of Amoracchius (Love).

Love is also thematically related to Thomas's personality and vampire powers ... just as Faith is a good thematic fit for Murphy. And on top of all of that, Thomas is the only character in the books other than Michael who is both in love and in a steady relationship from the very first time we see him.

He's also the person who returns the sword to Michael when it's stolen by the Fae and Red Court in Grave Peril.

There are so many hints pointing at Thomas being the new wielder of Amoracchius that it's almost too obvious; it makes me wonder if it's misdirection.

And there's another problem: I don't know if he'd actually be able to pick it up in his current (vampire-enhanced) state, even without the whole going-darkside thing. The other vampires don't seem to have that problem -- in Grave Peril, Bianca is able to handle Amoracchius (I think ... I don't have the book handy to check right now). But given what Amoracchius represents, and what the weakness of White Court vampires happens to be, it seems likely that one of them would not be able to touch the Sword directly. True love burns them; a Sword dedicated to that concept would probably torch them. I don't actually know, but it seems to follow from what we know about how the whole thing works. (I forget if it ever came up in Changes, when they're doling out weapons. I'll have to check and see.)

There's a loophole, though.

In Turn Coat (I think), when Thomas explains to Harry what happens when he touches Justine, the way he explains it is that it's the demon side of him that's burned by the physical contact. Of course, the two are, physically, more or less one and the same. But I'm curious if wielding Amoracchius for a selfless cause could actually destroy the demon, basically burn it out of him, without harming him.

The whole thing fits together so ridiculously well. Of course, I have no idea if this is actually where Butcher is going at all -- in fact, I'd had a totally different WTF theory about Thomas right before hitting the part about the royal heritage of the Sword-bearers, which was that Thomas was going to take up Lasciel's coin in order to gain enough power to get Harry back from being ... dead, or whatever state he's currently in. (Given characters' tendency to recur from book to book, I strongly suspect we have not seen the last of Lasciel, and Thomas is both a) very tempted by the Denarian coins in Small Favor, and b) would seem to make a very likely host for Lasciel due to his nature. Also, the idea of Thomas as a Denarian is both terrifying, and ... weirdly compelling.) But then I hit the thing about royalty, and suddenly everything just seemed to make sense.

Also, I think I'm trying to sooth myself that Thomas isn't going to die heroically-yet-tragically in the near future, and/or isn't gone darkside permanently. (Everyone in the books, aside from Harry, is so very convinced that vampires can't change their fundamental nature. I want to believe that these books aren't going to squash my fangirl soul like a bug, but there is that little wibbly part of me that wants so badly to know that everything is going to turn out okay and yet fears that it won't. Of course, Harry is also the guy who managed to reverse-corrupt a Denarian with his fundamental selflessness and general stubbornness, so if anyone might be able to turn a vampire back from the dark side, he's the guy for the job ...)

AUGH. IS IT APRIL YET?!

This entry is also posted at http://friendshipper.dreamwidth.org/290575.html with comments.

Comments

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I swear I have come across this idea before, but I honestly can't recall if it was online or discussing the books in person, or if it was something I thought up myself or whether it was someone else's idea. Or maybe I'm just imagining it! But I think it does make sense - at least Thomas becoming the wielder; not sure if it would burn out the demon or not, but it's possible?

I don't believe for a second that Thomas would go permanently darkside; that's not fangirl clinging, just it would be so antithetical to the theme of the books. But I do worry about the potential tragic death...pleeeeeease no. I don't want anyone to die, really...realistic, whatever; I love all these chars too much to want them to get anything less than a happy ending! ^^

[sholio]

I figured I couldn't possibly be the first person to have this idea. It's just a little surprising how well all of the possible foreshadowing fits!

I think I'm becoming terribly worried that these books are, eventually, going to do something that'll rip out my heart and stomp on it. With the last few books, they've been treading closer and closer to true, irrevocable character death/damage -- Michael's injuries, Thomas going darkside, and finally Harry basically killing Susan ... which, no matter what happens to him in the next book, is bound to mess him up horribly. There's always been darkness in the books to match the warmth and light (I'd forgotten just how much darkness, actually -- Harry's life has always had certain bleak undertones) but he's just got so much to lose now, and I'm so afraid that things are going to go even darker before they get better.

Or, shorter version, I agree with you: I love them all and I want them to end up happy, loved and together!

... which I think is one reason why I've been brainstorming ways for Thomas to eventually get free of the Hunger or at least tame it. His situation over the last few books was always kind of precarious; even the hairdresser thing, while the closest to an ideal solution he'd been able to find, wasn't perfect -- he was still living on the edge, and he still couldn't touch Justine. I like Thomas as an angsty (and sexy!) vampire, but I don't really see him being happy as long as he's still having to fight the Hunger. (Like he says to Harry at the end of Turn Coat, he's just tired of being in pain all the time. Oh, Thomas.)

[sholio]

Although one thing about reading the books back-to-back like this ... it's impressing me with how much Butcher's view of human nature (at least, as displayed in the books) seems to parallel Harry's -- cynical, yet incurably optimistic. No one with free will, not even a fallen angel and embodiment of pure evil, is without the potential for redemption. Most of the characters, actually, including Harry himself, have been a little bit darkside at some point (or a lot darkside, in the case of some of them, like Sanya). So, while the entire world might be telling Harry that vampires can't change what they are, the general thrust of the books themselves is the complete opposite.

... GAH. Re-reading the books before Turn Coat, the falling-out between Harry and Thomas breaks my heart all over again. I just want it to be fixed so bad.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

So, while the entire world might be telling Harry that vampires can't change what they are, the general thrust of the books themselves is the complete opposite.

Yes, I've always seen this as one of the major themes, that counter to much standard fantasy there isn't total Good or Evil in Harry's world (which I strongly suspect is going to lead to some major darkside-Harry, sooner or later, though I'm wondering in what form and for how long...)

Ahhhh, now you're making me want to reread them! (especially because my mom's been reading them as well - took a bit to get into them, but by Grave Peril she really started loving them. Though she's now a few behind and is holding out getting the next ones, since she heard that the latest ends on a cliffhanger so wants to plan it so she doesn't have so much of a wait...)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I like Thomas as an angsty (and sexy!) vampire, but I don't really see him being happy as long as he's still having to fight the Hunger.

Yes, that's totally it - I love him being all angsty and such, but I actually love Thomas as a char so much that I want him to be truly happy, even if it would change what that char is.

...at the same time I don't really want him to get turned totally human, either...Harry's got enough mortal friends already that it's really going to hurt when he outlives them; let him have his brother!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

(also, hee, your icon is rather apropos to the topic of sexy vampires - I rather think that actor (whathisname? ^^;) could make a good Thomas, if he can pull off an American accent...!)

[sholio]

Harry's got enough mortal friends already that it's really going to hurt when he outlives them; let him have his brother!

Ha, yeah -- I've been struggling with this as well. For a while after the reveal on Thomas, I was really delighted that at least one of the people Harry loves is as long-lived as he is, but as it became more obvious that Thomas wasn't going to be able to live happily as a vampire, I started wanting him to be "cured", in some sense, so that he could have a normal life. But then Harry would have to lose him at some point, and OW.

... I need more Dresden Files icons!

[sholio]

I'm glad your mom's enjoying them! :D (She's probably got the right idea. The waiting is hard!)

I keep expecting darkside-Harry and it keeps not happening! I do fully expect it at some point, and there are plenty of books left to go (hasn't Butcher said that we're about halfway through the series now?). The Winter Knight thing has a lot of potential for darkside!Harry, except that a temporary "death" is such a classic way of freeing a character from an obligation of that sort (but maybe too obvious for this series?).

I do really love how that High Fantasy sort of absolute good and evil doesn't really exist in Harry's world ... well, sort of, I guess. Magical creatures can definitely be evil (they don't ever seem to be good, though!) ... but it's not really true evil so much as just being predators or whatnot. They are what their natures make them. And anything with free will -- humans, and creatures that approximate them -- have the ability to change and grow. Actually, the Knights are founded on that principle, I guess; they give their enemies the chance to make the right choice even when it puts them in danger.

[sholio]

That's why I used it (having only the one DF icon, and being rather tired of it *g*). I've had that thought, too ... except I think of him so strongly as Mitchell that it would be a little odd. And, well, yes, the accent.

I'm so sad the series never got around to Thomas -- and, well, Michael and the Carpenters (sounds like a band!), and most of the other interesting characters from later in the books. I wish they'd do the books as movies, a la Harry Potter or LOTR ... that would be so awesome. :D

Because apparently I can't stop talking about Dresden Files right now *g*

[sholio]

Also, another thing I've been musing about Thomas in Turn Coat ... he (Thomas) ended up thinking of himself as the monster he's always feared he is, and has apparently tried to deal with it by embracing that side of himself. But what happened to him -- being brutally tortured and forced to kill innocent people to survive, in the worst possibly way -- would fuck up ANYONE. Basically what happened to Thomas was nothing less than rape, mental and physical. And Thomas started out somewhat messed up to begin with. What he's going through might not be anything other than a world-class case of vampire PTSD ... which, yeah, sucks for him to an incredible degree, but doesn't mean that he's gone evil (even though he obviously thinks so), so much as he's just terribly, terribly messed up and doesn't know how to handle it.

[gnine.livejournal.com]

Mmm, Aidan Turner reeally is soo very pretty, and I agree with neechan, he would make a wonderful Thomas, though at the same time, yeah, he's so very very Mitchell that it'd be weird...

Also, YES, movies of these books would be AWESOME! So so wonderful!! *sigh* We can only hope...

Also, to comment on the actual post, I don't remember if I've come across this idea before, if I have, I've forgotten, but I do think that you make a very good case and it would be AWESOME! Sanya, Murphy and Thomas, now that would make an interesting bunch! ^__^ Also, the idea of him being rid of his demon is rather happy-making. Oh Thomas, you deserve happiness so very very much!

April NOW, plzkthnks?!

[naye]

I am so behind this idea. I had not laid it out as neatly as you have here, of course, but the concept at least is something I've had in mind for a while now. I think I've talked to xparrot & co about it, at least? Because it makes sense. So much sense! I desperately want it to happen...!

I also desperately want the next book. And thank you so much for your incredible offer to send me Small Jobs, if it'd be cheaper than ordering from Amazon! I'm going to have to look into that - maybe I'll just pick it up when I'm in Sweden, or something. (We've got a big SF & Fantasy bookstore in Stockholm that's bound to have it.) Anyway, it's so much fun to see you fanning on Dresden! ♥

[parisntripfan.livejournal.com]

I've heard/read that theory myself. But one of the problems with it is not just that Thomas is a demon, but that his father was not really a king by blood. If I remember correctly he became King because he was the biggest and the baddest. He has stayed King because only a few people have realized that Lara now in effect controls him. So I am not sure that Thomas father counts.


However, Harry is also able to handle the swords, so he also has royal blood in veins. From his dad, or could it be from his (and Thomas') mom? Their mom's name, Margret LaFye could be a hint as to who Harry's (and Thomas') ancestors were.

If that is the case, then Thomas doesn't need his father side.

[lavvyan.livejournal.com]

I'm more interested in what this implies about Murphy's bloodline, to be honest. We already know she can wield a sword, so according to your/Harry's theory, that would mean she's royalty. I wonder what the implications of that might be - she's been more or less under the radar of everything supernatural so far, apart from that thing with the dream stalkery guy. I know her being policewoman-mortal was probably a huge part of that, but a confirmed potential sword-bearer has to be harder to ignore, Fae or White Council or Black.

Re: Thomas. Having made my way through the entire Codex Alera series, I'm pretty confident Butcher won't have one of his major identification characters stay permanently dark-side. For one thing, he is terribly fond of redemption as a general theme. For another, well, it's Thomas. He may have fought at Harry's side to make sure he doesn't get caught in the entropy curse (which I so don't believe was his motivation, but then I'm an unapologetic fangirl), but there was no reason to take care of Molly. No reason at all to let Harry stay on his boat. He's wobbling, yeah, but I don't think he'll fall down.

Also! Your fanart is made of win and rocks like a rocking thing! ♥

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Oh, interesting theory. I must have had blinders on or was hyper focused on the idea of Murphy getting a sword because I totally didn't see that. But now that you've mentioned it I'm with you on hoping this will be the case :D

Also, I think I'm trying to sooth myself that Thomas isn't going to die heroically-yet-tragically in the near future, and/or isn't gone darkside permanently.

Yeah, Thomas is such a good candidate for the "tragic death scenario" but then I kind of feel the same about all of Harry's friends. I'm nervous for Thomas and Murphy and Micheal (well, Micheal...). But Thomas definitely. If he did go dark side I doubt it would be permanent but I can totally see the possibility of his redemption involving self sacrifice. On the other hand - and this is my personal feeling - I think Thomas' "destiny" so to speak is to be free of the demon. That's always been the impression I got, though I see Thomas dying for Harry a possibility as well (either that or Justine dying for Thomas).

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Sorry to jump in but I had to say that I love your icon to bits :D

[sholio]

I was really surprised, once I started laying out "evidence", how much possible foreshadowing there actually is! And most of it went totally under my radar because Amoracchius was very definitely Michael's sword, and no one really expected Butcher to kill Michael, so the idea of someone else wielding the sword hadn't really come up until Small Favor. But if this is the way Butcher's planning on going, he's been laying groundwork for it since Book 3, which ... wow.

And just let me know about the book. ♥ Amazon.com probably is cheaper/easier (especially given shipping costs) but I'd be happy to help out if I can! I can take a look in Barnes & Noble the next time I'm in there and see how much the book costs with my membership card.

[sholio]

Well, while I do think that Thomas would count for the royal bloodline thing through his father (and you've got an excellent point about Margaret, too!), I'm not sure if I'm convinced that the royal heritage is actually necessary. There's been enough hinting/suggesting about it that there's certainly no doubt it makes a person a lot more likely to be a Knight, but something about having it be a necessity doesn't sit well with me. One of the big things in the books is the idea of free will and choice, and having a bloodline requirement to carry the Sword seems to go against that. (Okay, yes, I know there is also a bloodline aspect to wizard magic, but it's more presented in terms of simple heredity -- you may also have perfect pitch or a talent for drawing, but what you do with it is up to you. Using the Swords is not really like that.) And there's also Shiro's comment that God sees hearts. I'm just ... not sure if it fits with the rest of the picture that the swords have to be wielded by royalty. But as far as making a character a much more likely candidate ... I think that makes more sense to me, for the various reasons mentioned by Harry, or maybe Sanya, in the book -- that kings are tied to the land, responsible to their people, etc.

That's interesting about Margaret, though. We really know nothing about her heritage except what was revealed in Changes about her father. Thus at least part of the family is from Scotland, but we know nothing about the rest; her mother could be Faerie royalty for all we know. (Holy moly, what if it actually is? That would explain Lea's interest in her ...)

[sholio]

Well, like I said in answer to the comment above, I'm not sure if I'm on board with the idea that a royal heritage is an absolute necessity for wielding the sword. That it makes a person much more likely to be a candidate ... that's hardly in doubt given what's been revealed thus far. To have the bloodline requirement as an absolute necessity, though, seems to go against the books' general theme of free will and choice. For that matter, we've had a number of things happen in the books that are supposed to be "impossible" through characters exercising their own ability to choose -- it wasn't supposed to be possible to exorcise a Denarian's shadow without picking up the coin, but Harry did; it's not supposed to be possible for a White Court vampire to do a lot of what Thomas has done. So if Murphy is the first Sword wielder in known history to be of common birth ... that's just Murphy all over, isn't it? :D

... though having said that, as a Catholic named Murphy she's certainly Irish, and the odds that she's got some Irish king or clan chief in her ancestry are pretty good. :D

Yeah, I was a lot more freaked about Thomas going darkside at the end of Turn Coat than I am after reading Changes, actually. What he went through would have fucked up anyone, let alone someone who started out as messed up as Thomas was, and right now I think he strikes me as more messed-up and confused (or, well, not confused so much as just having made a very, very bad decision for how to get past his emotional tangle) than flat-out evil. He came when Harry needed him -- and I don't believe that it was pure self-interest, either -- and he seemed to be genuinely horrified when he came back to himself after almost feeding on Molly. Especially after re-reading the intervening books and getting to know conflicted!good-guy!Thomas again, I can't see him falling so far that he can't come back. He's just too fundamentally decent a person for that. (/shameless fangirl) *g*

I'm still worried in general because I'm getting so very attached to these characters that I can't stand the idea of anything happening to them. But I'm pretty sure that Thomas's eventual redemption is the way they're headed ... and not through death, either -- at least, I really, really hope not. Even besides just not wanting to lose Thomas, I think it would break Harry. I'm not sure if he'd be able to get over it.

So ... you've read all of Codex Alera. I can't remember if I asked you this, but is it worth slogging through the first couple of books to get to the rest of it? Is there enough good stuff in there to make it worth reading? Or were you the person who was telling me that it's still a total fail on the emotional button-pushing that Dresden Files does?

And thank you about the fanart. :)

[sholio]

*nods* I'm just so deeply involved in these characters right now that the idea of anything permanent happening to any of them -- it hurts! And I don't think Harry would get over losing any of the people who are really close to him (Thomas, Murphy, and now I guess Maggie, Mouse and even Molly -- what is it with this series and "M" names, anyway?).

The idea of Justine dying hadn't occurred to me. I ... kinda think it's not likely because they already did that, in Blood Rites, except she wasn't really dead. It seems too similar to what they've already done to do it again. But, well, see above re: Harry not getting over his loved ones' deaths -- I don't know if Thomas would be able to survive Justine's death. In Blood Rites, he almost didn't.

I do think that the logical end to Thomas's character arc, assuming he doesn't die, is to find some way to be free of the demon. Which means I've been brainstorming various ways it would be possible. :D The thing about Dresden Files, I guess, is that there's really nothing that's impossible in this series -- it's just that most things can't be accomplished without a corresponding level of sacrifice. I suspect that if Thomas ever does get free of the demon, it's going to be in the course of actually sacrificing himself for others ... and then not dying. At least that's my theory. If it happens.

[sholio]

Hee, yeah -- physically, Aidan Turner is about as close to a perfect Thomas as you can get (well, maybe a bit young if he's supposed to be 5 years older than Harry, but vampires don't age as humans do). But he's so firmly Mitchell in my head that it would be very weird to envision him in such a similar-yet-different role ...

The more that I've been thinking about it, the more I see Thomas ridding himself of his demon (somehow) as the logical end of his character arc. There's just no way for him to be happy otherwise, not long-term, and I want him to be happy so very much. ^_^

Re: Because apparently I can't stop talking about Dresden Files right now *g*

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

This is quite true, and it reflects what you see of him in Changes, because he's definitely not gone totally darkside evil...just struggling.

...awwww man, the aaaaaaaaaangst! *pats Thomas*

I keep expecting darkside-Harry and it keeps not happening! I do fully expect it at some point, and there are plenty of books left to go (hasn't Butcher said that we're about halfway through the series now?). The Winter Knight thing has a lot of potential for darkside!Harry, except that a temporary "death" is such a classic way of freeing a character from an obligation of that sort (but maybe too obvious for this series?).

I'm thinking that real darkside!Harry will be saved for closer to the end...but he's already drifted in that direction quite a bit. And then usually drifts back again (pulling folks with him sometimes, e.g. Lash!) but yeah, one of these days he's got to go over the line. It's so set up for that, I'll be shocked if it doesn't happen.

...still, it better have a happy end! What you said before, about the books ripping out your heart and stomping on it...so hoping Butcher doesn't go and pull a Whedon! The way I like these books, and the way I like these chars - if he starts killing major chars, I might have to quit reading them. (After Michael's fate, being so set up for tragedy and averting it in a way that was still satisfying - I'm hoping that's a prelude for how the rest of the series might go...)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

^_^ I do have a thing for over-protective siblings (and Dean Winchester is just off-screen going, "heeey, what about me?")

Re: Because apparently I can't stop talking about Dresden Files right now *g*

[sholio]

Yeah; Michael's fate was something I'd been half-dreading for several books, and then he ends up ... all right; in his own way, he's actually in a better place than he was before. (And not that better place, either. *g*)

Butcher had better not go all Whedon on us, grrrr! I've been fretting about it lately because I'm finding myself so caught up in the characters, and loving them so much; I can't bear the thought of any of them getting anything less than a happy ending after all their trials and travails. I can deal with a lot of darkness as long as there's light on the other side, but oh, if some of them don't make it out, it'll be so hard to deal with ...