Oh, right! We also watched Supernatural!

[sholio]

Towards the end of last season, I kinda disengaged emotionally from SPN. I didn't realize just how much I'd disengaged until watching this episode. I looked forward to the episode, enjoyed the episode, but I'm really not fannish about it at all anymore.

I've gotten to the point with SPN where I think I'm watching to laugh at the OH JOHN RINGO NO factor as much as to enjoy the show itself. Which is a little unfair to the show, because most of its problems are pretty much typical tropes of genre TV, and it is well written and fun; there was a lot of fun in the episode, especially the total creepiness of not having any idea what was going on or what was stalking Dean (or even if he was really out of Hell, or dreaming, or what). I'll freely admit that I *MUCH* preferred the urban-legend focus of the first season to the whole theological, end-of-the-world, meaning-of-existence thing they've got going now, but, hey, I'm curious to see where they take it, and I like the angel!

But ... it's gotten to the point where I just can't not point and laugh at all the places where the show goes to that OH JOHN RINGO NO place. I'm not sure if I'd go so far as to say that it bothers me -- I really am more amused by it than anything else -- and any one individual thing (the half-naked girl in Sam's room, Dean slapping a demoness) wouldn't be notable by itself, but it's just all of them, all together, in pretty much every episode ... and the previouslies really drive that point home, being basically a parade of injured/killed/abused women. I might also point out that the angel -- a character who will presumably be recurring, who is insanely powerful, quite likable and, unlike most of the guest stars in the episode, wasn't hurt or killed or objectified or evil -- is a man. OH SHOW. My expectations ... so low! And yet you keep underwhelming them!

I do realize that it's basically an action/horror show and they're working within the tropes of the genre. But it doesn't have to be this way in a genre show; SGA, of all shows, just had two back-to-back action episodes featuring female characters that had NONE of these issues. It's not that every episode has to be perfectly gender-neutral or that women shouldn't ever be victims or stripped down to their underwear, it's just ... must EVERY EPISODE be like that?! wtf, Kripke?

Comments

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Ahahahahah yes. The OH ERIC KRIPKE NO just so constant it's almost entertaining. (The previouslies weren't all women getting murdered - there was also a black guy or two getting it! Um...show?)

It is a problem when they make me guilty for liking the cool, hot (white) angel-dude, however... (though I don't think he was really less objectified than the new Ruby? The problem is objectification of men just doesn't work the same way as objectification of women, because the social context/privilege is different...)

[sablecain.livejournal.com]

I'm not the only one! Good grief. I thought for certain it was just me. I'd fallen so out of love with SPN, gradually, over the last two seasons. I mean I love the boys but I just didn't even care if I really watched or not. I was chatting with another friend during the ep (she's not into the show at all) about how I just missed the urban legend/ghost story feel of the first season. I miss that bit of fun creepy and am just over whelmed with demon demon demon all the time. I had literally just typed..."if there's going to be this much focus on demons I need me some angels to counteract it all" when they had the big reveal. Hee. I'm to the point where I've decided to watch, enjoy and go from there. No taping, no delving into fandom. Just sort of letting it go, you know?

[leenys.livejournal.com]

See, this I don't understand. Maybe because I'm a huge fan of the show, but I don't see this "sexist/racist bend" that some viewers are putting on it. There have been just as many men go evil (black and white), be demons, whatever. And just as many good females (black and white) that are intelligent and help out.

So I'm not buying it.

[sholio]

It just makes me laugh, really. It's like a drinking game! Although you'd end up totally drunk by the end of the episode -- actually, in this one, you'd be passed out on the floor after the first ten seconds. *g* (Though, all that aside, I really love the little canon music videos that they do! This one may have been a "last season's worst hits" kind of thing, but it was so much fun anyway!)

I did like the angel, though! And, yeah, I think you're right that he was still being objectified, but in, um, a less pandering kind of way, perhaps? I mean, the women in SGA are all dressed up in black leather, but I don't find it at all objectionable -- the men are all wearing black leather too, and for every half-naked female guest star (which have been MUCH less prevalent of late, too!), there's a shot of Ronon's chest or Rodney's shoulders. *g* I can be very cheaply bought. XD

The new Ruby, oh dear. I did not like the old one on her first appearance, but all the reasons that I didn't like her (too Buffy, too young to be a demon hunter, etc) went out the window when I found out who she really was, and I liked her just fine by the end -- I thought she did "hard and questionably evil" very well, especially for someone who was, on the surface, so young and pretty. The new Ruby, though ... I don't think she's doing a good job of projecting "hard and evil" at all. Her voice was so querulous, and if she was trying to mimic the other actress's mannerisms and expressions (as one would expect with the same demon inside her) I sure couldn't tell! I guess I ought to give it another couple of episodes and see if she can manage to exude the same callous and world-weary vibe that the other one did, but I'm not feeling it so far.

[sholio]

I just missed the urban legend/ghost story feel of the first season. I miss that bit of fun creepy and am just over whelmed with demon demon demon all the time.

Yes! I didn't mind the big YED myth-arc in the first season at all; it was very tied up with finding John and Sam's past and with the work that they were doing. But "all demon all the time" is doing absolutely nothing for me. At least the second season had the Roadhouse and Dean's brushes with the law and a few other long story arcs to compete with the demon stuff. The more it goes on, the more it's just all about the demons and this sort of weird quasi-theological thing they're doing. In this particular context, I don't care about the meaning of life and existence and whether or not Christian theology is literally and metaphysically true. In fact, I actively don't want those sorts of questions intruding into my enjoyment of watching pretty boys killing werewolves and banshees, dammit! *g*

[sholio]

Well, you know, I certainly don't have the market locked down on the absolute one true interpretation of the show. *g* I mean, these things are largely in the eye of the beholder, and if it's not jumping out at you, I can see no reason why you'd need to go looking for them. (Actually, if you really enjoy the show? DON'T. I didn't see it for a long time, and I kinda wish I could un-see it now.)

[amalthia]

I was thinking during the episode that I really wished SPN was actually scary again! I miss the feel of season 1 and even 2 to some extent. I mean SPN was scary at one point right? I miss the mini-horror story they had going every week for awhile there.

Mostly, I was just amused by this episode and realized I may have fallen out of love because it didn't engage me the way it used to. :(

[amalthia]

I can't un-see these elements in the show either. After I saw Women's Work and then after season 3 it just jumps out at me.

[leenys.livejournal.com]

*grins* That's the problem with fandoms. Get one idea from another fan in your head, and BAM. The love isn't the same. Or have something negative happen...for example,because of the outrage about Carson leaving, I can't appreciate the character anymore. Pisses me off because I loved Carson before, but now when I see him I'm just reminded of the ill-will and outrage on the net that caused me to practically leave the fandom.

[winter-elf.livejournal.com]

I enjoy SPN, but not fannish about it. I just watch it and that's about it. And you know what - there IS a female writer on staff! She was at con. So, how they get this bad with a female writer, when SGA has none?? It's very mind boggling.

[ancientcitadel.livejournal.com]

I think I've fallen out of love with the show, not the characters. I seem to actually prefer fanfic but then with fanfic you can pick and choose what stories you read. :) I haven't even watched the second half of the last season because I just got bored with it. Oh and I miss the Roadhouse and Ellen.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

The most objectionable part of the "previouslies" music vid, with the montage of women being murdered - the song lyrics there are "She was the best damn woman that I ever seen." So the imagery was sort of ironically fitting...I don't know if that makes it better or much, much worse, though! Eheh.

he was still being objectified, but in, um, a less pandering kind of way, perhaps?

That's the problem, though - you pander to fanboys and fangirls in different ways. Fanboys want to see women in tight-fitting revealing clothing showing T&A as they kick ass; fangirls do enjoy that with our boys (mmmm Farscape), but I think we're just, if not more, turned on by trench-coats and lightning and big woobie brooding eyes. The angel char is far more appealing and attractive to me like this than if he'd shimmied in wearing tight leather, and I'm pretty sure that TPTB are aware of this. The angel was being objectified for us, while the psychic and new Ruby were being objectified for guys. I don't know if that makes it defensible or excusable, but...it's complicated?

Yeah, I actually quite liked Ruby last season - not so much her woobieness at the end, but the "hard and questionably evil" was fun. The new one I didn't see enough of to get a handle on, one way or another; she didn't come across that great, but I'm willing to give her a chance.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Actually they have at least two female writers - Sera Gamble and Raelle Tucker, who have both been around since first season. And yeah, I use SPN as my ultimate example of "women writers don't automagically make everything better or less sexist!" ...Though they do lead to a lot more crying and hugging boys, apparently... XD

[sholio]

Yeah, I really miss the early seasons! I did find the first 10 minutes or so of this episode very creepy in a Twilight Zone kind of way, but as it became clearer that there wasn't some kind of mindfuck coming, I began to lose interest.

[sholio]

*laughs* I know! SPN's female writers are a fairly compelling counter-example for the argument that SGA needs more women writers to "fix" their problems. It really just comes down to writing skill, regardless of gender...

[sholio]

I really miss Ellen and the Roadhouse! I think I'd be liking the show a lot better now if they'd continued with the season two trend of developing a stable of supporting characters to help the boys out, rather than tightening and narrowing the focus down to just the Winchesters. I think one of the big problems I'm having right now is that I don't feel there's a whole lot else they can do with the Winchesters that they haven't already done; I'd like to see more development of the world and the supporting cast, but instead they keep killing off the supporting cast and the only thing about the world that's getting any development is the demons. *sigh*

[ancientcitadel.livejournal.com]

I think I'd be liking the show a lot better now if they'd continued with the season two trend of developing a stable of supporting characters...

So would I. I think the wider cast stopped it from being so repetitive. I'm not sure I'll even bother with this season. Well, unless Ellen turns up in an episode and Samantha Ferris hasn't mentioned any on her blog. :(

[parmalokwen.livejournal.com]

Not sure what to think of Castiel, especially as we don't know his agenda yet (and I looked him up online, Angel of Thursday, wtf?) but the actor did an awesome job of portraying a scary creature utterly convinced of his own holiness.

I noticed the new Ruby's insecurity too-- I thought it was because she's a little scared of her pet hunter now. If he decides she's not actually on his side, she's toast, and she knows it.

[sholio]

Angel of Thursday! bwah! XD (... there's an angel of Thursday? Well, I guess all our days are named after gods anyway! I wonder if Thor is upset that Castiel has stolen his day ...)

I did greatly enjoy him as a character -- I must admit that I'm not really on board with the theology on the show, though. I can certainly enjoy it if it's there from the get-go (Good Omens, anyone?) but right now I feel like the show's thrown me a curve ball I don't want.

But that's an excellent point with New!Ruby. It's difficult to judge her based on just one scene; I'll have to wait and see how she interacts with people other than Sam. (Also, demonslayer-Sam is too much fun!)

[sholio]

Samantha Ferris has a blog? What's the URL? I'm interested!

[ancientcitadel.livejournal.com]

Her blog on her website is here (http://samanthaferris.net/blog.php) or the Livejournal feed is here (http://syndicated.livejournal.com/samanthaferris/profile).

[sholio]

Thank you! :)

Red Shirt Girls

[novembersga.livejournal.com]

Season One of Supernatural was my favorite. It had a great premise and the brothers clicked so well. I loved the snark.

Season Two had me thinking, 'If Sam say's '..but my destiny...' one more time, I'm going to scream. I like Sam, but he got really whiny in Season two.

Season Three: I was NOT happy about Dean's 'deal' at all. And taking a page from Star Trek, enter the 'Red Shirt' (girls). Oh, pretty girl in show. Oh, pretty dead girl at end of show. hmm.

Season Four? I like that they finally acknowledge the existence of angels. Lot's of people have no problem with the demons, but balk at angels? Come on..... And what is wrong with having a CAPABLE female character? One that doesn't look and act like the stereotype. They actually had a few female characters I really liked. They were pretty, (but not bombshells if you know what I mean) smart and likable, but also very dead very soon.

*sigh* I'll still watch (until my cable net-work quits carrying it in October) *ahem* Like I said, I'd still watch, but the only show I'm a true fan of is SGA and they're taking it off! !@%#@*!!

I am going off to sulk. I'm still not over the cancellation.

Anyway, I know what you mean!