sholio | Aaand ... it's over! Sort of ...

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Aaand ... it's over! Sort of ...

The last-ever SG1 episode ...

The timing was really interesting on these, with last week's episode being the big explosion/wrapping up the loose ends episode, and this one being ... a very different sort of episode than one would generally expect as a series finale to an action/SF show.

Honestly? I really loved the concept of this episode, as a series-ender, but not so much the way it was executed. The concept itself was awesome -- to have the series end on an episode that is primarily focused on the connections between the characters, really goes right to the heart of *why* the viewers have stuck around for 10 years. It's not for the explosions; it's for the people. And it's fitting that they'd bring the series to a close with an episode that basically turns them into their own little microcosm, becoming each others' world. It also indicates to me that the writers *do* understand that about the show -- that the characters and the team are what keeps viewers coming back.

But why, oh WHY did they have to set it up in such a way that the only way to get out of it was to pull a Star Trek-style "and then they all woke up" type of ending. I *hate* those endings because it basically makes the entire episode pointless. It may as well have been a dream. All the character development, all the events that happened to them really have no meaning if they were all undone and no one but Teal'c remembers. And why in the world does he feel like he can't talk about it? It's a totally different timeline; how can he possibly screw anything up? At least SOME of the pointlessness could be offset if he'd come back and be able to share with them some of what he'd learned from 50 years of living with them. In the end, though, all it did was set Teal'c slightly apart from everyone else ... so instead of ending up with a stronger team vibe, it's actually a little weaker.

The other thing that I didn't like about this episode was that, given that the vast majority of the episode took place on the ship with nothing BUT character development, there was surprisingly little of it. They did really good with Vala, but not so much with the others. Especially given that this was all going to be undone (and, as they aged, it became more and more obvious that it would be) -- there was SO much potential for the character relationships to go off in new and interesting ways (what about Sam and Teal'c hooking up? or Sam and Cameron?) or just to deepen the ones that are already there. Since this is the last episode ever -- aside from the movies -- it would have been really nice for Jack to be acknowledged in some way, or for the team members to reflect on the changes that have happened to them over the years: not in a clip show kind of way, but just an acknowledgment of all that's happened to them and changed them since Jack and Daniel first stepped through the Stargate. And it's not as if they can't do that. Earlier episodes have done much better with the character catharsis than this one did. Heck ... "Shroud" would have been a wonderful episode to go here: character-centric, focused on the connections between the team members, nice blend of action/talk/humor, AND it would've come full circle by including Jack.

And then at the end, it all ties up in a neat bow in about three seconds flat. WTF?

It really could have been more. In the middle, I thought it WAS going to be more. I think my disappointment stems largely from the fact that I thought the episode was setting up a much cooler scenario than it actually turned out to be -- well, that and how much I generally loathe the "reset button" type ending.

I'm also still coming to terms with the fact that THEY KILLED THE ASGARD. That was completely unexpected.

*sniffle* Aww, SG-1. It's definitely ironic that I only started watching the show again in its final season. Atlantis has the majority share of my heart now, but of course it never would have gotten there if not for SG-1, the show that started it all. And despite my problems with the episode as a whole, the final scene made me grin with pure happiness: the team walking off to new adventures. (Coming soon to a DVD near you, in fact...) Whenever Atlantis airs its final season, and whatever happens between now and then, I really hope that they ultimately end up with a "new adventures ahead" type of ending rather than a "cataclysm and everybody dies" type of ending. I like the feeling of limitless possibility -- the sense that the characters will keep going, out of sight if not out of mind.

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Interesting take on the episode! I'm too weary to comment at length, but I'll say that as interesting as the Daniel/Vala hookup was, equally interesting was who didn't hook up. Perhaps this is something quite telling about these individuals. It is also possible that, given the time constraints in telling the story, certain intimate relationships did take place, but we don't know about them...yet. The movies may provide some insights into this. Teal'c may yet reveal unexpected (read: Unknown to us) events that occurred while the team was stuck on the ship for so long.

There's certainly a TON of fic potential in this one. In all honesty, my reading of it is that there was a whole lot that went on between them that we didn't see. I could easily see them going through a bed-hopping phase, or sitting around thinking about all the "could have beens" from their lives -- there just wasn't time to show it. I guess I ended up feeling like it didn't have as much punch as I'd wanted, but that doesn't mean that those things didn't happen off-camera. Like "Road Not Taken", this is one of the handful of SG-1 episodes that really makes me want to write fic -- I think it's funny that with SG-1, it's the AUs within the show itself that I want to write for, whereas I prefer to stick to the canonical timeline (usually) with SGA.

Thought about dl'ing it...

THEY KILLED THE ASGARD??? WTF????

I know! It kinda came out of left field, too! I'm still kind of in shock -- I can't really figure out why they did it.

*sniffle* Thor! And HERMIOD! I have this private fantasy that Hermiod, the antisocial little bastard, didn't join everyone else and is actually still alive.

They killed the Asgard. *shakes her head in dismay* I'll be damned. I wonder how many were actually "around".

Crap. The Asgard was the best excuse for little green/grey men I've seen.

Yeah, of all the various TV incarnations of Roswell grays, I think I liked the Asgard best. *sniffles again*

It felt kind of rushed, too. I can only imagine that if they'd actually had an 11th season, the events of the last couple of episodes would have been spread out over part of the season and we would have seen some genuine fallout. As it is, it's been feeling kind of like a Cliff Notes for tying up the series' loose ends.

My biggest complaint is that they killed off the Asgard and there wasn't enough emotional fall out. Carter was the only one who seemed upset. Mind you, Cam, Vala, and Landry haven't been around them much, but still - this is the ASGARD!!! *weeps for little sweary Hermiod*

Ah well, the Flanigan will be happy. He hates those puppets! I did like the 'How can you tell them apart?' question from Vala with Daniel's answer - 'It's the voices.' Yes, and WHO does the voice for Thor again...? LOL!

I laughed at the injoke for Thor :)

I thought that too. On one hand they have been saying they were dying and come to the last episode - poof they are blown away. Did they know they were being targeted?

Also got to wonder if this will become Carter's ship...

The problem with series endings is that more often than not they're not satisfying. How can you bring X years of show to a close, and yet not a close? The only ones I've seen and thought they were complete and fitting endings were ones were there was a natural way to tnd the show - Voyager comes home, President Santos is inaugurated, thus ending President Bartlett's two terms (West Wing). Others haven't done so well - DS9, TNG... Thinking about it, it's possible they got some of the idea for this from TNG, with the future scenes and the reset where the one person who remembers will not tell.

But maybe the only episode it's fair to compare this with is Moebius, which was the original show finale, when they "knew" in advance that SG-1 was ending after season 8. They had advance warning for that, and so it became a rather more sprawling 2 parter, but still with a similar theme of jumping through time, and a reset. But at east in both episodes something significant happened - Moebius got Atlantis its ZPM, Unending got the Odyssey its Asgard tech, and hinted at things that really could happen in this timeline's future.

I think Teal'c won't say anything because he doesn't want to be an undue influence on this timeline. He could tell Daniel and Vala what happened between them, and they could launch themselves into something, or he could wait and let it happen naturally - and I believe from that last scene betwween them that it very well could happen naturally. BTW - whe they were trying to decided who'd be the one the stay, I was going 'but it HAS to be Teal'c, his life-span is at least twice (if not three times) as long as everyone else's, he'll still have a long life to live when he gets back.' Oh and imagine what could have happened if they didn't have a Jaffa on board... Nasty.

Yeah, I missed a mention of Jack. That they could have done easily, even if it were just a line, I would have been happier.

Now on to Daniel/Vala!!! I was horrified, HORRIFIED when he started being nasty to her. I was yelling 'But that's not Daniel!' at the screen. Daniel just doesn't DO that, and it negates their very real friendship. Then I was wondering whether Vala was so bored that she'd programmed a hologram (an idea that is the child of the myriad fake-outs we've seen) of him to be nasty to her so at least she'd have an emotional reaction, or so she could get over him - that idea went out the window when I saw him lean against things and they moved! Then I was just stymied. But when it was revealed WHY he'd done it, I forgave him on the spot - especially because *It's Daniel/Vala!* the only relationship that I can really get behind.

Talking of other relationships - I think it would have cheapened what happened between D/V if they'd shown any others. Frankly, I don't think there's even a spark between Sam and Cam (the rhyming names are enough to make me cringe), I don't see Teal'c/Sam, and Cam/Teal'c is enough to make me run for the hills. Now I'm not ruling out that at times there was 'comfort' or 'boredom' sex going on, but I just don't see anything more happening, and believe absolutely that having only the one pairing in that ep was the right way to go. Why does everyone have to hook up? And I'm a romantic talking here!

Talking of Cam - he really is as boring as I thought he was. Oh dear! Sam at least learnt the cello, Landry creates a garden, D&V hook up, Vala goes roller skating - Cam - runs around the ship, spars with Teal'c and rips up his room. YAY! (except not) Can you imagine the fun things the Atlantis crew would get up to in the same situation? HEE!
Of course, they didn't show Teal'c doing anything - which was a disappointment. Yet again, the writers (or rather RCC) do not manage to get a hold on Teal'c - or maybe it was cut? I could see Teal'c learning to sing opera, and being damn good at it!

I didn't mind the very end. They had to wrap it up, and I don't think a protracted ending would have been any more satisfying. The use of the cliches was fun - and that would have been a good place to mention Jack, perhaps? I was rooting for 'Indeed' being the last word, and they almost did it, so close! I can work with 'Godspeed' - that's OK.

So all, in all - not the best, not the worst - a difficult job, done in a hurry and *roll on the films!*

(I want the Asgard back! WAAAAA!!!)

Yes, I was wondering that! That could be a way that they could ....*muffles self*

Or would they keep it themselves? Maybe they manage to backward engineer some of the tech and make their own versions?

BTW - that was the first (or possibly the second) time they've verbally acknowledged having a ZPM. I'm kinda annoyed they didn't make more of a thing of it - I mean giving up 2 ZPMs wasn't an easy thing for Atlantis to do (I love 'Echoes') and yet - little acknowledgement. Bah!

I do agree with a lot of what you've said here -- and I just re-watched it (heh) and appreciate some of the character development more on the second go-around ... like Landry standing on the bridge in his uniform, looking out at the energy beam, right up until he dies -- then Cam taking over, and still wearing his flight suit, too. I think the thing about Cam is that he never made a life for himself here -- his whole life was focused on going home, which is pretty sad in just about every way ... sad that he basically fixated on that to the exclusion of all else, but also sad *for* him, if you know what I mean.

I did love his little salt-shaker Superman though. Cam totally has his moments.

I was with you on Pod!Daniel. It excuses it knowing why he was doing it, but only up to a point ... I still really winced at that scene on the re-watch, too. And yeah, Daniel/Vala is just about the only pairing for either this OR Atlantis that I can actually see happening. (Well, that and Ronon/Teyla under certain circumstances.)

Honestly, though, the "trapped together until the end of time" scenario, in fic, is one of the few where I actually CAN buy nearly any pairing, even one that I wouldn't normally see happening on the show. Some of the few genuinely plausible slash stories I've read have used that idea. As much as I'm all for platonic relationships under most circumstances, I guess I *do* have a hard time seeing someone staying celibate in close quarters with someone of the opposite sex for 50 years. Not that I think it's impossible -- as you said, I think there would be a fair bit of comfort/boredom sex going on. (And I actually wrote a tag this afternoon which uses that idea -- need to get it beta'd, though.)

Asgard ... *snivel* I maintain that Hermiod is off somewhere and didn't participate in the group suicide. (But Thor! Waaaaah!)

I'm thinking now about series finales, and how many good ones *have* there been, anyway? I think there are some that made me go WTF?$#%^&##! at the time, that I appreciate more now, like the Quantum Leap ender. But as far as genuinely satisfying ones ... they truly are far between. At least we got an end, rather than an unresolved cliffhanger -- those are HORRIBLE.

LOL ... when they were saying someone had to go back, I was going "Teal'c! Teal'c! C'mon!" Because of *course* it's gotta be him; he's still got a normal human lifespan to go, at least.

There are a lot of similarities between this and Mobius. The funny thing is that I didn't really mind the reset button there -- I guess maybe because it was obvious from the beginning that it was the only way to fix things? Although I guess that was the case here. Hmm ... I'm not sure. I still wish there had been some way around it. But it's true that we got kind of a "sneak preview" of the rest of their lives without actually seeing their entire lifespan (another sort of ending I've never been fond of, after reading one too many Larry McMurtrey novels ... he usually ends them by telling you how all the characters are going to die, 10 or 20 or 30 years later, which is just utterly depressing).

Still depressed about the Asgard, though. And still wish they'd worked Jack in somehow -- I think that's my biggest unresolved complaint about the episode. But I do love that they ended the series with a "character" episode -- and what that says about the priorities of the writing crew, and the fact that they really *are* on board with the fans when it comes to that.

LOL! Oh! And I *did* picture the SGA bunch in that situation; I couldn't help myself. (I actually do that a lot when I'm watching SG-1, imagining how the SGA characters would react to a similar plot -- I know I shouldn't, but I do anyway.)

I don't recall if you read slash or not, but there's a really marvelous slash fic ("Time in a Bottle") that basically puts John and Rodney in this exact situation -- it's one of those "theoretically plausible slash" stories that I mentioned in one of my last comments, because they're not only trapped together in a small space for all eternity but they don't age either ... and you actually *can* see their friendship shading steadily into a sort of unhealthy co-dependence and from there into sex without having to turn your head TOO far sideways. Anyway, the reason why I mention it (because the fact that I kept thinking of it while watching the episode) is the hilarious and obsessive array of things they come up with to keep themselves occupied, and also to try to keep from getting too sick of each other.

Rodney would be spitting tacks and spamming Elizabeth about it :)

I did love his little salt-shaker Superman though. Cam totally has his moments

I had forgotten about that! I've only watched it once. Yes, that did make me laugh. Sam being Rodney to Cam's Sheppard! Hey that's one fun thing they can do together on Atlantis - watch movies and rubbish the science! Hee! Cam still doesn't interest me (apart from his first 3 eps), neither does Elizabeth. I think it's no co-incidence that these are the two characters I am most like. (Analyse that, Freud!)

The thing with Daniel was that he really did have to be sure - that's Daniel - he feels things deeply, and to be messed around would make life unbearable. She's messed with him before, so he would be really wary. Still, I don't like to think of my Daniel being that horrible, and LYING so blatantly under any circumstances. I forgive him - just about - though the thrill of them hooking up was lessened by my 'BUT NO!' reaction moments before. But that's me. It took me 10 mins to start crying after "Sunday" ended, because I was still hung up on 'John was MARRIED?!'. Silly brain.

I've read fics where Hermiod was put on the Daedalus as a punishment for crime X, an idea I like when weighed with his frustration levels - possibly muttering 'I know I was bad, but I don't deserve THIS!' to himself. So maybe, being a rebel, he's out there somewhere as the last remaining Asgard - don't tell Joe!

I love that story! I liked the fact that it happened slowly. That's one of the big problems I have with much slash is that often they just jump into bed with each other - OK, after X years of friendship most time, but still... That might be realistic, I don't know, but I like the time factor. It speaks of permanence and depth - something they *just* managed to communicate with D/V with the '20 years' scene and the 'You know I...' scene.

I actually read more slash than gen, because I have this huge romantic side to me, and I really do not go for the het stuff in SGA (apart from possibly a future John/Teyla, depending on how canon goes). Ronon/Teyla is great in a fic, but I don't ever think it'll happen in canon, and I don't read it as a primary pairing. I do often skip the sex parts, because it's actually a well written kiss that gets me. It's my thing.

I can imagine John inventing some kind of golf game where you hit the balls out of the energy shield in the F302 bay. And building little ferris wheels, and remote control planes, and still never beating either Ronon and Teyla, because as much as he gets better, they get better too! And of course he and Rodney would come upwith at least one crazy idea to bug Elizabeth each month!
That's as far as I got. John. *obvious much?*

LOL! Oh, SGA, those crazy goofballs. And can you imagine how nuts Ronon would get, cooped up like that? Teyla and Elizabeth would go insane just trying to keep them all under control! SG-1 is so much more straight-laced. Vala's the only one who would engage in that sort of wacky hijinks, and the others would probably stop her. Actually, I could see O'Neill doing things like that, too, like building himself a fishing pond in the F302 bay...

Now this is giving me the urge to write something like that for SGA. Aside from Astolat's story, I can't think of another time it's been done, and not with the whole team.

The funny thing about me and slash is that I'm really not a romantic at all. I tend to hate romance plots and the romance genre in general. But some pairings work for me, and I can't even say why. Some work for me on the show(s) but not in fic; I don't think I'd ever seek out Danial/Vala fic, but I like them fine on the show. And I don't see John/Rodney on the show at all -- I mean, even beyond the obvious fact that it's slash and it'd never happen, I really don't see them as "a couple" but their interaction is so adorable that I like reading it in fic. (In fact, I really hope TPTB *don't* insert any canon pairings in the next season, at least not among the main bunch; I'm fine with side pairings, like Rodney/Katie, but I love the family vibe so much right now that I can't see how a romance could be added to the mix without derailing the easy camaraderie that I love so much.)

The only time that slash in fic really works for me is when it's given time and room to grow. I think that's why established pairing fics don't work for me. *laughs* Now here I want to say "It throws me out of the story" but I guess what I mean is that I'll start reading one of those, go "Nope, not the SGA I know, blah" and quit. It's just the wrong dynamic. In order to make me buy it, it's got to build it. Astolat's a great example of a writer who does both the kind I like and the "WTF is this?" kind of slash; I really enjoy her longer stories, but the shorter ones tend to read as "gengengenSLASH!" to me; it's not given enough development to make me buy it.

I think the trouble with Cam (and Elizabeth) is that they're just such straight-laced characters that I find them hard to relate to. They don't really have ... little cracks, I guess, where you can get into the characters. I certainly don't dislike Cam at all, and like I've said elsewhere, I like him way better on SG-1 than I did on Farscape. I also think he works fine within the SG-1 team dynamic. But ... he's no Jack.

One thing I will say for him is that he's less deadly dull than Jonas...

I can understand why Daniel did what he did -- but the level of his, well, *cruelty* to her takes away most of the warm-fuzzy to the resolution of that scene for me ... it's more just "ow". And see, I think that's really the big reason WHY I usually shy away from romance plots on TV and movies -- and why I hope they don't go that direction in SGA canon. It's not the fact that it exists; it's that it's often done in a way that introduces conflict and unhappiness into the dynamic where none existed before. Not that this is unrealistic -- it's often that way in real life too! But I'm so fond of the snarkily cheerful SGA vibe that I hate the thought of the hurt feelings and cold shoulders and people getting left out that is seemingly inevitable to result from any of the main cast hooking up on the show. (Not to mention the screaming from OTP fans.)

One thing I will say for him is that he's less deadly dull than Jonas...

Arhhh! Thems fighting words there! LOL! I actively like Jonas, though it's less than when I first saw season 6. I don't find him boring. I don't know why. That's all I'm saying (about that)

I never stay on topic on LJ.

I prefer BB on Farscape - but I've only seen season 1 (so far) so I may change my mind... But then Farscape has the little muppet (Rigel?) for me to hate

LOL! Sorry! I will say that I don't actively *hate* him ... Jonas, that is. And for some reason, I did hate Crichton. And Rigel. And Aeryn. I'm not sure why. Half the cast I loved; half the cast I couldn't stand. Unfortunately the half I couldn't stand were the ones that got the most screen time. I only saw part of the first season and then started watching it again near the end (just in time to be thoroughly confused).

Hope you don't mind me jumping in, but I'm still trying to sort how I feel about about SG1's ending. However,
Best show ending: MASH
Worst: St. Elsewhere and Forever Knight (FK was my introduction into the world of fan fiction, when I found a couple really good alternative endings).

Oh, SO true on FK! In fact, in my personal canon *grin* the entire 3rd season never happened. It's one of the very few exceptions to my personal rule about not violating established show canon. In MY happy mental place, Nick and Nat and Schanke and Janette all live happily ever after, while Lacroix dies horribly. (But that's just me ... LOL)

After giving the episode some time to settle mentally, I feel better about the parts I didn't like (the reset button, etc). And I keep flashing back happily to the CCR montage. It wasn't the greatest episode of all time, but it left me with a warm glow, and that's really nice.

Hi,
Would you please contact me about the awards? I need your email address. sharong90@yahoo.com

Thanks and congrats, :-)

Shazz!
For the SG Fan Awards

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Aaand ... it's over! Sort of ...

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