So, yeah, the Doctor does get a some special dispensation with me due to being my childhood hero. And possibly because the version from my childhood is still my ideal, David Tennant's version totally clicks with me in a way that Eccleston's didn't quite manage. Tennant grew up watching essentially the same versions of the Doctor that I did - and, like David Hewlett, he's such a total fanboy! So I think that he brings to the role a lot of what I fondly remember.
But to get back to season 1 and some of your comments here:
Jack's comment about saving Rose, that "she's worth it" -- er, I'm not really sure that she is, actually, given that she's done very little lately except for single-mindedly pursuing the Doctor through time and stepping on whoever she has to in order to do that.
YES!!! That line from Jack actually crystalised a lot of the vague discontent that I'd been having with Rose's character all season. The OTP-ishness of her and the Doctor had been disgruntled me because it seemed to "shippy" and that's not what the series had always been about. Yes, the Doctor had always shown loyalty to his friends and his closest friend at any one point in time was usually a human female (although once, she was a female Time Lord). But in the new series, they seemed to be trying to make Rose the "Greatest Companion the Doctor has EVER HAD" (TM) - and they were ding it by just telling the audience how wonderful Rose was. As you say, she just basically used people like Mickey to further her own Grand Adventure with the Doctor. She's "All About the Doctor" and, more annoying to me, he (and most other guys in the show) are "All About Rose". And they never really explain why. It's just stated that "Rose is worth it". And like you, my knee jerk reaction was very much "I' m really not sure that she is."
And I love Jack in the "Doctor Who" series, but he doesn't engage me emotionally (and frankly comes across as more of a prick) in the spin-off series "Torchwood". And I'm actually fairly sure that the main reason is because the "All About Rose" gets transferred to being "All About Jack". And I actually would suggest that you not watch "Torchwood" aside from just taking a look out of curiosity because I've come to think of the Torchwood team actually being the antithesis of the SGA team. If the SGA team are the "dork squad", then the Torchwood team are the "bitch squad" (*ducks to avoid the ensuing firestorm from that remark* but details of my discontent are here (http://derry667.livejournal.com/82402.html)).
The irony is, for me, that by the writer's trying to build Rose up by telling how "worth it" she is all the time without really showing it, made me respect the character less and less, but the characters like Mickey and her mum, which were "just the comic relief" to begin with, I grew to respect and love more and more. This was possibly always the plan, as they really do come into their own in season two, but I started loving them in season one. "Mickey the Idiot", in particular. He always seemed "real" to me in a way the Mary Sue Rose wasn't.
(As a brief aside, I actually don't hate Mary Sue characters and/or stories on general principle. There are actually some clearly Mary Sue fanfics which I've found well-written and interesting - and where I've actually found the heroine interesting, sympathetic and well-portrayed. So, calling Rose a "Mary Sue" is just a description with me, not outright bashing. She just not on of the Mary Sues that I feel a great deal of sympathy for. I do adore her "successor", Martha Jones, though.)
no subject
But to get back to season 1 and some of your comments here:
Jack's comment about saving Rose, that "she's worth it" -- er, I'm not really sure that she is, actually, given that she's done very little lately except for single-mindedly pursuing the Doctor through time and stepping on whoever she has to in order to do that.
YES!!! That line from Jack actually crystalised a lot of the vague discontent that I'd been having with Rose's character all season. The OTP-ishness of her and the Doctor had been disgruntled me because it seemed to "shippy" and that's not what the series had always been about. Yes, the Doctor had always shown loyalty to his friends and his closest friend at any one point in time was usually a human female (although once, she was a female Time Lord). But in the new series, they seemed to be trying to make Rose the "Greatest Companion the Doctor has EVER HAD" (TM) - and they were ding it by just telling the audience how wonderful Rose was. As you say, she just basically used people like Mickey to further her own Grand Adventure with the Doctor. She's "All About the Doctor" and, more annoying to me, he (and most other guys in the show) are "All About Rose". And they never really explain why. It's just stated that "Rose is worth it". And like you, my knee jerk reaction was very much "I' m really not sure that she is."
And I love Jack in the "Doctor Who" series, but he doesn't engage me emotionally (and frankly comes across as more of a prick) in the spin-off series "Torchwood". And I'm actually fairly sure that the main reason is because the "All About Rose" gets transferred to being "All About Jack". And I actually would suggest that you not watch "Torchwood" aside from just taking a look out of curiosity because I've come to think of the Torchwood team actually being the antithesis of the SGA team. If the SGA team are the "dork squad", then the Torchwood team are the "bitch squad" (*ducks to avoid the ensuing firestorm from that remark* but details of my discontent are here (http://derry667.livejournal.com/82402.html)).
The irony is, for me, that by the writer's trying to build Rose up by telling how "worth it" she is all the time without really showing it, made me respect the character less and less, but the characters like Mickey and her mum, which were "just the comic relief" to begin with, I grew to respect and love more and more. This was possibly always the plan, as they really do come into their own in season two, but I started loving them in season one. "Mickey the Idiot", in particular. He always seemed "real" to me in a way the
Mary SueRose wasn't.(As a brief aside, I actually don't hate Mary Sue characters and/or stories on general principle. There are actually some clearly Mary Sue fanfics which I've found well-written and interesting - and where I've actually found the heroine interesting, sympathetic and well-portrayed. So, calling Rose a "Mary Sue" is just a description with me, not outright bashing. She just not on of the Mary Sues that I feel a great deal of sympathy for. I do adore her "successor", Martha Jones, though.)