sholio | Just a bit more Supernatural squee

Just a bit more Supernatural squee

We're up to 2x04 now. (And it turned out that iTunes had season 2, so it's actually legit. More on that farther down...)

Husband: "You know, I'm not sure about all the soap opera stuff this season."
Me: "Chicks dig that. Shut up."

Boy, the emotional stuff is packing a wallop this season. Although ... you know, I'm not by any means a huggy sort of person, and on top of that I'm used to the SGA cast, who have got to be the least huggy group of people in two galaxies (at least up until this season), but I'm *really* starting to crave a teeny tiny bit of physical affection between Sam and Dean. Or at least SOME comfort of some kind to go along with all the hurt. Come on, a pat on the shoulder or *something* ... (sob)

And while I didn't think it was possible for me to fall harder for Dean than last season, this season is just smacking me upside the head with the Dean-love. "Bloodlust" is the one that *really* got me, because of his reaction to the vampire woman being tortured: his flip-flop on the vampire issue and his total willingness to risk his life protecting these people that he's spent his whole life being conditioned to hate and think of as "not people". And his tortured reaction to the whole idea that some of the creatures he's spent his life killing might not have been deserving of death. Although they usually end up killing the creatures in self-defense, so Sam's defense of their lifelong pursuit of evil is quite justified. But still ... oh, *Dean* ...

Incidentally, I totally called the "vampires gone good" thing the minute that the other hunter showed up. Because things just couldn't possibly go that well for the Winchesters...

About the legitimacy thing that I mentioned above ... despite not having cable or broadcast TV, I really do *try* to get the legit versions of the shows I watch when it's a) possible, b) affordable and c) relatively easy. So I've been downloading these off iTunes. And here's where it gets hilarious (and sad), because it's turned out that playing the "official" versions of the files is a goddawful pain in the butt compared to unlicensed AVI's. In fact, it's SUCH a pain that I'm halfway tempted to download the AVIs despite having already bought the episodes legitimately. Our entertainment system is a Frankensystem that's all hooked up to a ceiling-mounted projector which broadcasts the Winchesters onto a king-sized bedsheet on the wall. The Mac where I download the files (which can run them beautifully) doesn't have a VGA port so it can't be hooked up to the projector. The files have to be copied to a Windows XP machine and that's where things go screwy, because the AVI's can be played in a happy little free Linux media player, but the only thing we've found so far that can play the M4V's successfully is the Windows version of Quicktime, and it can't be full-screened, not to mention that it stutters and lags every time the antivirus software (which refuses to be disabled) kicks on.

Wouldn't you think that the version you pay for would work better than the version you don't? Ah, in a sane and perfect world that might be true ...

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it's turned out that playing the "official" versions of the files is a goddawful pain in the butt compared to unlicensed AVI's. In fact, it's SUCH a pain that I'm halfway tempted to download the AVIs despite having already bought the episodes legitimately.

That's what I do. I buy the episodes I want off of iTunes, and then download the AVI files to actually watch. Except for BSG, because I am frankly irritated with their method of releasing DVDs in spurts and charging twice as much for them.

I think the only reason why I haven't done it with Supernatural is because I really dislike using Bittorrent for a variety of reasons, and I can't find a site to download from. Since we *do* have somewhat less-than-stellar versions of the files, I'm not especially inclined to spend a lot of time looking for them online. It's nice to know I'm not the only one with sentiments along those lines, though.

Wouldn't you think that the version you pay for would work better than the version you don't?

Ah, don'tchya just love technology? ;)

*snort* It's a thing of beauty, all right!

Have you tried these people: http://www.xtvi.com/

I don't have cable or broadcast either ('cept CBS, which my rabbit ears can pick up sorta), so I buy SGA from Amazon Unboxed. The quality of the files is very good, but they take ages to download, so after I've purchased them...erm, I go download them from the above people. :=\

I must admit that I am a bad girl when it comes to downloading the shows I watch. For a very long time, I simply couldn't get them legally until way after the fact and so I got into the habit of downloading (even though the downloadable versions I used to get were total shite in terms of pic and sound quality). Now I can watch good quality versions of my favourite shows with 48 hours of them showing in North America or the UK. As Oscar Wilde once said, I can resist anything but temptation.

But you've almost caught up with the latest Supernatural! Yay! Hey, you'll be just in time for the new episodes which start up again some time in January. Neat!

I must admit that I've been waiting for you to hit season 2 because I wanted to put to you the idea that in his grief and (let's face it) a certain degree of self-loathing following his father's death, Dean has in some ways become obsessed more with the "killing things" rather than the "saving people" aspects of the hunting they do. And in some ways, it seems to me that as such, he's more like the view of him you seemed to see when you didn't really like him. And yet, I find that this change actually draws in the sympathy for him even more - because really, he's losing himself by it. And Sam can see it and is trying desperately to reach him and pull him back. And every so often, you can see the real Dean break through to the surface again (like when he talks about his worry and remorse about "killing things that didn't need killing") - but still the darkness is always there threatening to drag him under. And so, yeah... oh DEAN!

Regarding the downloading ... it seems to vary wildly with me, between different shows and just how I'm feeling at the moment. I don't see any point in buying something *twice*, so if I'm planning on buying the DVDs (e.g. SGA) I'll go ahead and download for free and then buy the DVDs when they come out. With SPN, I mainly downloaded it off iTunes because I didn't want to hassle with Bittorrent. (And then I had to torrent "Croatoan" anyway because iTunes doesn't have it yet -- how silly is that?)

In the past I've swung back and forth between dl'ing every damn thing in sight, and just snagging the shows that I planned to buy when they came out. I seem to be in some kind of in-between area right now...

Anyway, I'm totally caught up now on SPN (just watched Croatoan). And I'm still digesting the events of this season. My god, it's gotten dark. On the one hand, I love the angst and the fact that they're actually dealing with emotional fallout and allowing the characters (and their relationships) to grow and evolve. On the other hand ... I'm occasionally a little wistful for the lighter tone of the first season. It's just *so* dark at times and so incredibly sad, especially Dean's suicidal/self-destructive tendencies.

That *is* interesting to compare Dean now to how I saw him at first, because you're right. In the first few episodes, all I ever saw was the darker edge to Dean, until I started knowing and liking him as a character and seeing him more in terms of his goofy, affectionate side. But this season, the darkness has very nearly swallowed him. And it's so horribly sad, because he's such a truly *good* person at heart and yet, as you said, he's losing himself in the darkness. The writers are really doing a good job of depicting his slow slide downhill; you just want to *stop* it somehow, because it's like he's on this runaway slide to either dying or losing everything that's good in himself. I don't really see there being a whole lot that Sam can do for him -- he's going to have to hoist himself out.

Being Australian, downloading North American and UK TV shows doesn't really weigh heavily on my conscience. I don't affect the ratings and I don't feel I really disadvantage the shows producers by downloading those sort of things. And like you, I did buy the DVDs as well.

On the one hand, I love the angst and the fact that they're actually dealing with emotional fallout and allowing the characters (and their relationships) to grow and evolve. On the other hand ... I'm occasionally a little wistful for the lighter tone of the first season. It's just *so* dark at times and so incredibly sad, especially Dean's suicidal/self-destructive tendencies.

Yeah, me too. Do you ever get tired of me saying that. As was said on that other thread in your LJ (by you, I think), there has to be some comfort to balance the hurt. There was a little lightness in some episodes, but I think they need an episode with something like the prank war of Hell House. Maybe that wouldn't seem entirely appropriate just at the moment (what with The Big Secret TM looming) - but I hope they reach a place soon where that sort of thing would fit. The boys need a chance to be boys again.

The writers are really doing a good job of depicting his slow slide downhill; you just want to *stop* it somehow, because it's like he's on this runaway slide to either dying or losing everything that's good in himself. I don't really see there being a whole lot that Sam can do for him -- he's going to have to hoist himself out.

Yeah, the writers are doing a good job of depicting it and damn but the Ackles boy can act! I don't know if there is anything that Sam can do for him per se (after all, as far as I can see, Sam has tried everything he knows). But I kinda think that if the threat to Sam becomes less nebulous and gives Dean something specific to focus on and defend his brother from, that might help a bit. If he can concentrate on looking after his brother (which is a longstanding, deeply ingrained instinct in him), then he might let go of some of his guilt about surviving. Maybe.

I do enjoy some angst, but I feel there must be a point to it. It should reach a crisis point abnd then have at least some resolution. I don't want Dean to lose himself. He's too good a person, at heart. That would be a too much of a tragedy for me.

I do enjoy some angst, but I feel there must be a point to it. It should reach a crisis point abnd then have at least some resolution.

YES. That is where some shows -- "Lost", for example -- have totally lost me (no pun intended there). It's just unrelenting grinding anguish with no end in sight, and, worse, no particular *point* to it. I feel that the last few episodes of SPN have skirted dangerously close to this, but there's still a sense of progress ... the plot is moving forward, the relationships are continuing to evolve. It *is* running the risk of becoming a series of soap-operatic mini-climaxes with no real point to them (the cliffhanger of "Croatoan", in particular, I thought skirted dangerously close to that, teasing at actual resolution and then pulling back), but so far, it hasn't fallen into that trap. I really hope that we maintain that forward progress ... either that or pull back from the dark stuff for a while; I could deal just fine if the main arc is allowed to sit for a while in exchange for some lighter, episodic stuff.

It's the balance thing that I was just talking about over on your "Tao" episode review. "Tao" had such incredible impact, in part, because that series just doesn't DO that kind of episode. SPN has been doing the heavy emotional stuff so much lately that it's really losing its impact. They either need to resolve the "dark Dean" arc pretty quickly, or turn away and do something *different* before they start having to lapse into increasing levels of melodrama in order to keep getting the emotional impact (which is what happened with "Lost" over the last year or so).

And yeah, that Ackles boy just acts his heart out, doesn't he? I *so* didn't think he'd be the sort I'd go for in the beginning. I was *so* wrong.

If he can concentrate on looking after his brother (which is a longstanding, deeply ingrained instinct in him), then he might let go of some of his guilt about surviving. Maybe.

The thing about this is that, as much as Sam wants to help and as much as *I* might want some kind of emotional catharsis with Sam, Dean's survivor's guilt is something he's absolutely going to have to get over himself. In its own way, his difficulty at dealing with his father's death is as selfish as Sam's need to distance himself from the family that we've talked about earlier. I mean ... I have huge amounts of sympathy for him, but at some point he's *got* to accept his father's death and his own part in it, and move on.

I really hope that we maintain that forward progress ... either that or pull back from the dark stuff for a while; I could deal just fine if the main arc is allowed to sit for a while in exchange for some lighter, episodic stuff.

Yeah, I agree with you. I think The Usual Suspects was a mini dose of what I want more of - an ep where for all the OMG-he's-gonna-kill-Dean angst involved, the guilt took a back seat to good ol brotherly watching each other's backs. :-)

They either need to resolve the "dark Dean" arc pretty quickly, or turn away and do something *different* before they start having to lapse into increasing levels of melodrama in order to keep getting the emotional impact (which is what happened with "Lost" over the last year or so).

Agreed. I never got into Lost, but this is the main reason I got fed up with The X-Files in general and Mulder in particular. More and more and more angst doesn't endear a character or show to me. As you say, BALANCE is the key. And I think that's why I initially fell for both Winchester brothers, the very paradoxes of their natures seems to lend a degree of balance as well as comnplexity.

Darker doesn't necesarily mean deeper. And pain doesn't necessarily mean sympathy. TV writers and producers can't expect it to be that easy, I'm sure. Here's hoping!

Dean's survivor's guilt is something he's absolutely going to have to get over himself. In its own way, his difficulty at dealing with his father's death is as selfish as Sam's need to distance himself from the family that we've talked about earlier. I mean ... I have huge amounts of sympathy for him, but at some point he's *got* to accept his father's death and his own part in it, and move on.

Oh, I definitely agree that the decision to change and get over it has to come from within Dean himself. However it's not really dramamtically plausible for him to just decide one day that he's over it without a visible catalyst to that decision taking place.

I agree totally with your comparison with Sam's issues in early season 1. The thing is that I really think that Sam "got over himself" primarily because the events of the Scarecrow ep provided a very believable catalyst for him to take a good hard look at himself and decide to "grow up". There is ongoing change and development for his character pretty much throughout the season, but that ep provides a quantum leap. Coz in that ep Sam actually makes the move break his unofficial partnership with Dean and strike out on his own and in doing so a) meets Meg and sees a reflection of his own rebellion against his family and b) finds Dean gets into trouble and needs his help. The scenes with Meg fascinate me because I fancy I can really see her manipulations blowing up in her face. When she tells Sam her story about needing to break free of her family, Sam verbally agrees with her, but the look in his eyes looks rather disturbed and I can't help wonder if he's thinking "Did I sound that shallow?". And when she pushes him to ignore the danger that his brother might be in, that really probably made him decide that she was wrong and he didn't want to be like her. Then there was the fact that he had to go and rescue Dean. In some ways, I think that made him feel empowered, that he wasn't just the little brother who was always being rescued and patted on the head. He got a chance to reverse the roles and I think he liked it.

So, yeah, Sam's decision to get over it came from within, but it didn't happen in isolation. And I just think Dean needs a similar kick in the head to get over the biggest hurdle of his guilt and move on.

I see what you're saying about some specific catalyst being needed to kick Dean back to the land of the living. I'm ... torn on that, really, because on the one hand, I think the h/c lover in me would really love an episode like that, but on the other hand, I'd kind of like to see him pull himself up by his own bootstraps, not *needing* some kind of catharsis in order to turn the corner. On the other hand, the deeper he goes in grief, depression and self-pity, the more he's going to need help getting back out, I suppose ...

I don't think he necessarily needs a defining, turning-point moment for realism, because in real life people just *can* come around slowly, through a series of small steps rather than something big. I just don't want it to be overly pat. The situation that the writers have set up is incredibly complicated. It's been a slow fall, and it's going to take a lot more than a single event to get Dean over it. So -- I hope it doesn't end up being written with Dean having some kind of catharsis and then being mostly back to normal. However, so far the writers have been pretty good about developing that kind of thing gradually, and I hope they'll continue to do so as Dean turns the corner. (And I really hope he turns the corner SOON, damnitall ...)

Incidentally, I've started reading your long Supernatural analysis (and BOY, it is long!) but I keep getting interrupted and haven't finished it yet. However, I agree with you about the paradoxical nature of the two boys, that what you see at first -- and how the viewer tends to peg them in the beginning -- isn't what you actually get.

I don't think he necessarily needs a defining, turning-point moment for realism, because in real life people just *can* come around slowly, through a series of small steps rather than something big. I just don't want it to be overly pat.

I think it's a fine line that they have to walk. Yes, in real life people can just come around by their own initiative without an obvious catalyst, but I would find an inexplicable change frustrating from a dramatic persepctive.

I mean, you can see a visible catalyst that started Dean on this downward spiral. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to see something occur that makes him re-evaluate himself and *start* to climb back out of the darkness. I *don't* want an instant fix! No way!

But being the overanalytical type that I am (*sheepish grin*) I do want something, some event or influence that I can tag in my own mind as a catalyst to the change. Although if it's something like finding "twu luv", then I will probably barf (but no, good thoughts, good thoughts, no trite shipper solutions, no...)

Incidentally, I've started reading your long Supernatural analysis (and BOY, it is long!)

*sheepish again* Guilty. *I* still can't believe the length of that particular ramble.

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Just a bit more Supernatural squee

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