sholio | Feeling more balanced now

Feeling more balanced now

Um ... I kind of cleaned up the remnants of my little mini-meltdown this morning, just in case you were wondering why things have changed YET AGAIN. (And if you missed it, don't worry about it. It's gone now.)

I appreciate everyone who responded supportively, though.

Just to be clear on what I mean when I talk about a "fix" story (and confuse people who missed my various posts this morning EVEN MORE -- believe me, you didn't miss much) ... if you hated Ford leaving the team, can't stand Ronon, and therefore, write Season 2 & 3 era fics with Ford on the team ... that's a fix story. You don't explain or justify it, or consider your stories AU. You just write it as if it's always been that way, because in your head it *should* be that way. (I haven't really seen much of that sort of thing in SGA, but I have *definitely* seen it in SG-1 fic.) A "fix" story doesn't try to explain changes from canon; it simply ignores whatever inconvenient aspects of canon the author doesn't like.

So ... writing something you've always wanted to see in canon = not a fix; ignoring established canon to do so (and not explaining it, because it just "shouldn't be that way in the first place") *is* a "fix" -- to me. Most of the ones that I've seen are done out of hatred for some particular canon decision: killing off a character, failing to put together a couple that the fan thinks should be together, or putting them with the "wrong" people, introducing an unpopular character, etc.

I've always been bothered by such stories; not only do they tweak my internal out-of-canon sensor, but they seem disrespectful to the writers of the show. When I write, I always try as hard as possible to work within canon, or at least, if I do want to deviate in some way, to find a way to do that convincingly, within the boundaries of canon.

I don't mind if other people want to write "fix" type stories. That's their prerogative. But I don't think that I ever would, any more than I would ever write a character-bashing story. To me, it flies in the face of what fan fiction *ought* to be, which is a labor of love for canon.

That's all; carry on.

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So... does that mean I'll get a chance to read the tag? Because I didn't get to before the, uh, thing. :)

Yup, it's back. At least, er ... it oughta be, if I did everything right. It's the post under this one.

I didn't really delete it, I just turned it "private" for a while.

Even when shows have made decisions I didn't like, I could never see the point in writing "fix" stories? If you were that angry at the show, either quit watching or keep writing within the canon that you still enjoyed. Or, go totally AU and let everyone know it up front.

Yeah. Exactly. It *never* made sense to me. And there's something kind of almost ... I don't know, mean about it? Like with a character-bashing story, if you write a story that makes clear your hatred of certain aspects of canon, it's almost guaranteed to anger or hurt some of your readers. And why would anyone want to do that?

AU is a different kettle of fish. As long as you're willing to acknowledge that it *is* AU, I don't really have a problem with seeing different non-canon possibilities explored. That's what fanfic is for, after all. It's the stories that start out "I really hated (x), so I'm writing this story where (x) didn't happen..." that tend to bug me. And I really haven't seen that much of it in SGA, although it was all over the place in SG-1 at certain points. (At least, it seemed so to me.)

Y'know, being the weird and obstreperous person (who possibly can't spell) that I am, I'm kinda sorry that I didn't get to see your "meltdown".

You had a rant against "fixit" stories? Or was it against character-bashing stories? Or was it against character-bashing fixit stories?

Must admit that it's partially because you and I share quite a few opinions about fic and fandom that I'm really intrigued to see the substance of your "rants".

I don't mind "fixit" fic - but a prefer it if it's done by way of an explanation why a certain character isn't really dead rather than them just popping up saying "Hey look! I'm not really dead after all!" And I'm generally not into character-bashing (although I do make exceptions for certain sanctimonious hypocritical Ascended Ancients - just as a rare example). IMHO expending hate on a fictional character is just a ludicrous waste of energy. I'll admit that I can't help being annoyed by some characters, but for the most part, I tend to just ignore characters that don't interest me. As for blaming the "replacement" for a character that you liked and lost... Well, I never really did, but I've even learned the folly of stopping watching the show after you lose your favourite character. I stopped watching Angel after Doyle died - and then had to borrowed umpteen videos to catch up with all the episodes I'd missed because I fell hard for the character of Wesley Wyndam-Pryce (and yeah, I actually wrote a "fixit" fic for the series finale because IMHO even if Wes did die that wasn't gonna stop him Fighting the Good Fight - and I think I did a little "character-retrieval" too actually... hmmm...)

Mind you, if they killed off Rodney, I'm pretty sure I'd lose interest in SGA... But let's not even consider that possibility. It's just to tragic to contemplate.

Oh! And was the fixit fic that inspired the rant something to do with a certain enemy no longer being an issue on SGA?

Hey dear - I'm checking my flist from the airport (in transit at the moment). Hmmm... I missed your earlier post but am thinking part of your reaction could be my fault due to a comment (I think) I made. Anyways, I do apologize if so. No harm nor foul intended. I adore your writing, and appreciate what fanfic has to offer for shows like SGA. Best, lis

I'm conflicted on fix-it fic...but having read your tag, it doesn't strike me as a fix, it's an extension, a tag reflecting your interpretation of the aftermath. I don't think the comments were meant to imply that your fic was a 'fix it' but seeing how you have some very strong feelings towards that kind of a thing, I can see how you got...a little melty. :)

But anyway, the thing with fix it...I know in SG-1 people wrote s6 fic with Daniel. After s7 they refuse to write Frasier dead. My preference...stage your fic in an earlier season and get around it. Yeah, you lose the ability to cover some events but in that case, write an au fic of 'what might have been'...I don't mind them.

I never really saw it as being disrespectful to the show's writers. Interesting view of it and it makes me consider the AU to Irresonsponsible that I was looking at writing later.

Character bashing stories make me feel all evil. They really do. But then it falls into characterization. I can't begin to say how many sg-1 fics I read and kept thinking 'what?' because the characters were written so far from canon it was laughable. Whiny poor Daniel that can't even make sure he sleeps enough so he winds up all ill and awful. Or a Jack that treats Daniel like dirt. *grrrrr*

Now with SGA fandom, I look at reviews if I'm unsure. I can usually judge one of those from comments made so I steer away. I get so upset over the John picking on Rodney and treating him like dirt because it's more personal to me with John and Rodney. With sg-1 I wasn't near as invested, hadn't spent the time writing and getting to know them, but here I have, and to see them so misrepresented and OOC is painful. I avoid that stuff like the plague.

Some very good points...

I have never understood the need for fix-it stories or stories that are written just to bash a particular character. It drove me batty in SG-1 fandom. (one of the reason I have pretty much dropped out of it)

I can understand writing AU fics when an event in canon makes your fic idea impossible. That is problem with writting for an ongoing show. You are always in danger of getting "jossed." It is sometimes tricky. What I have a problem with is the "Fan fic writers are so much better then the people writing the show and the TPTB should hire them/us and fire the people working for them now" mentality...but that is rant for an other post...

For the most part I am a canon sort of girl and prefer stories that keep the characters in character. I love when I can hear David Hewlett's voice when I reading Rodney's thought or dialogue. So for me keeping with canon - what I like and what I don't is something I always try and honor... And when/if I do write an AU it is not because I want to "fix" a mistake the writers made, it is more that an idea hit me and because I take so long to write a darn fic events in the show make it impossible in the canon universe. Or it is me wondering what might have "B" had happened instead of "A"

Well, I missed the MMD (mini-meltdown! ^^) and since I don't watch SGA (yet...yet. It's scheduled for early next year as we need a new h/c source. Dammit.)

Just wanted to say that I always thought "fix" stories were those stories which actually did deal with canon events, but found ways to change them. So if one wrote an SG-1 story that Daniel came back (before he came back in canon) that would be a "fix", to me, an active reparation of a perceived flaw. I wrote a tag to SG1 "Double Jeopardy" that unkilled the android duplicates because I was fond of them and thought of it as a "fix". Writing a story as if Daniel never left I think of as a "denial" story, simply denying that anything ever went wrong. (though most denialists I know term their fic AU for simplicity's sake; saying otherwise is just picking fights.)

I am overall a canon loyalist, but I am very fond of "fix" stories in some fandoms, and for that matter I sometimes don't mind denial stories either. ("Rift? what rift?" Clark/Lex is my favorite flavor of Smallville futurefic, and that's flying in the face of like 6 decades of comic canon!) I can understand why it can be perceived as being disrespectful to the show writers, but on the other hand I see the original elements going wrong as being "disrespectful" to the fans. Especially since so many of those changes are not motivated by the writers' belief in the story or chars, but because of actor contracts or sweeps weeks or other external elements. Even if the plot point was solely the writer's choice (such as in novel series) I don't see a particular problem with loving canon up to a certain point and then rejecting what follows that point. It's not that the writer is being disrespectful to you personally, but that the work itself betrays you, betrays the expectations you had of it, and I don't see a problem with wanting to change that. If you're a passive fan, then you have to accept what is thrown at you, or just stop watching. But fanfic'ers are anything but passive.

I think all fanfic has a certain implied element of 'fixing' - it's a labor of love for a canon, but at the same time there's an implicit acknowledgment that canon is not totally satisfying, that there is still something more you want to see. At least this is true for me, in that the series I most love canon, I tend to have little interest in fic; they're complete for me as is. The series I'm most likely to fic for are the ones which have immense potential in canon, but that potential is not entirely fulfilled.

JMO, of course. It's an interesting quandary...

Well good! *Sends cheery waves and hugs and other 14 year girl type things*

I'm all meta'd out, and a bunch of people up there already said the things I would say if I weren't.

Okay see NOW I understand your interpratation of "fixit" fics and I agree - I don't like those kinds of stories either!

How I saw it was that ALL missing sceens/episode tags could be considered "fixits" because something is added that wasn't there before and usually it's because the author felt something was missing so it is "fixed" in their mind now that they've added it in. Apprently that was to general of an interparatation of "fixit" fics.

Oh man...I wish I had seen your rant, I really do! LOL! Oh, and I agree with you. Not that that's a shock. But I still would have loved to see the original rant. Alas!

*laughs* No, no ... it wasn't you, and don't worry about it. Just me overreacting to something, mostly.

I just wrote a long email to Derry regarding fixits and how I feel about them, in which I realized that I actually *have* run across fixit stories that I didn't mind in certain other fandoms; apparently it just depends on to what extent I was bothered by the events in canon! However, generally I agree with you -- set it in an earlier season or make it an AU.

I am TOTALLY with you on the John picking on Rodney thing, especially when you get the impression that the author's writing it that way because she actually sees that in canon. And that's one reason why I really wanted to get your beta input on my "Fading Sun" AU (which I really need to get back to...). I really *didn't* want it to come out looking that way, and I figured that you were the person to keep me on track. :)

And whiny!pathetic!Daniel is actually one of the reasons why I stopped reading SG-1 fic, some time ago. I just got so sick of everyone treating him like a victim, and it's mind-boggling that people do the same thing to Rodney in SGA fic. I mean, RODNEY! He's about the least victimly person EVER!

OMG, you're going to watch SGA! *bounce* Er ... sorry. It's just that it's been a long time since I've been THIS fannish about something, and the idea of you writing fic for it, and being able to talk about it, is just -- SQUEE!

Incidentally, speaking of fannish crack, I bought the DVDs of Supernatural a couple of weeks ago. They've been sitting unopened ever since. I think I'm actually scared of them. An online acquaintance of mine calls Supernatural "The Show That Ate Fandom". I don't know if my brain is capable of encompassing TWO obsessive fandoms without exploding!

I like your "denial" definition. And I just got done writing a long email to a friend where I rambled at length about "fixit" stories and realized, in the process, that there actually HAVE been fandoms where I've read, enjoyed and even sought out fixit fic. Apparently it totally depends on HOW much I hated a particular canon decision. So ... I'm starting to think that my overreaction to this particular situation (which was basically just having one of my stories described by a reviewer as a fixit story) had to do with the gulf between what I wanted the reader to get out of the story and what the reader actually GOT ... and, maybe, just the terminology being used, because she explained herself and I think that my reaction to her post was based on what I THOUGHT she was saying more than what had actually occurred.

I hate it when I go all drama-queen, because I *know* how it looks when other people do it and ... yeah. Meta'd out about sums it up.

Yes. One of my goals, as a fanfic writer, is to write as true to canon as possible. Otherwise ... I may as well be writing original fic. (Which I suppose makes it kind of interesting that I've been finding AUs intriguing lately -- both as a reader and a writer. But even in AUs, I expect a high level of adherence to characterization and those elements of canon that haven't been deliberately circumvented by the AU.)

But this whole thing has made me realize that my anti-fixit-story position is a little bit TOO extreme ... and kind of hypocritical, because there *are* other fandoms where I've kind of "written out" certain parts of canon in my head. (*cough*Firefly*cough*) I still don't think I'd write a fic that blatantly ignored canon ... but I'm really not ini a position to mouth off on it.

I'm really sorry for going off half-cocked. I think basically, it's just a case of different definitions ... where you meant one thing with what you said, and I "heard" a totally different thing, and reacted based on that ...

You're certainly not WRONG. I don't have anything to base my definitions upon, except for my own personal interpretation of the words, which are just as individual and flawed as anybody's. :)

Again, sorry for the mis-communication.

You didn't miss much. I mean, seriously, you didn't. *grin* I got all fretty about a story I'd written, and took it down, and then put it up again. So ... no big deal.

See, yes, that's why SGA scares me! It seems that pretty much all of Western fandom's collective souls are being held hostage by either the Atlantis team, or the Winchesters, or both. But I can't help but be curious what the fuss is about, and I know you got good taste (insofar as your tastes are near identical to mine, at least in certain areas! ^^ Though I don't know if you're as weak to sibling smarm as me...?)

But SPN isn't that dangerous! At least it's not for me, because I have little interest in fic for it - for the exact reason that I mentioned above. Because SPN delivers. There's no need to write those little moments in between eps where the masks of tough masculine independence slip and the pain and the caring are reluctantly admitted...because they're already written. By the writers, who I swear to god were fanfic'ers in another life, or possibly this one (at least two of the main writers are women, and considering the eps they've written, I really really wonder what their fan experiences are...)

Ah, I know exactly how it feels, when one's story gets misinterpreted. Sometimes you gotta just grin and bear it, the risks of letting one's babies fly free from the nest to let anyone read 'em. But it's hard not to react! ^^ I also know what you mean about it depending on the particular canon, because I am a canon whore more often than not, and I will bite down and accept unpleasant canon to a certain extent...but there are points that I will just give up and check into that bungalow in Egypt!

Though I don't know if you're as weak to sibling smarm as me...?

Ohhh, I'm an absolute sucker for it. Actually, I think one of the reasons why I fell so hard for SGA is because of the sibling-like relationships between the characters -- they bicker constantly and then turn right around and try to sacrifice themselves for each other ... guaranteed to make me swoon.

There aren't a whole lot of siblings on TV, unfortunately (leaving aside family sitcoms, of course). My sister and I were actually just today trying to come up with examples of genre and cop-type shows that are focused on families. Besides SPN and Numb3rs, and a couple of cop shows from the 80s, we drew a total blank.

There's no need to write those little moments in between eps where the masks of tough masculine independence slip and the pain and the caring are reluctantly admitted...because they're already written. By the writers, who I swear to god were fanfic'ers in another life, or possibly this one

Ooh. *rubs hands together* Definitely need to sit down and watch this thing. I hope that SGA doesn't drive you insane with frustration, having gotten used to a show with a much higher level of actual smarm in canon. I think SGA has cranked up my smarm-o-meter so high that the teeniest little thing in canon sends it across the scale. SPN may cause my head to explode. In a good way, hopefully. ^^

And I know what you mean about the shows that DON'T deliver being the ones that send a fan looking for fic. In fact, I think we may have discussed this in the past. I think that's why I've never really had an urge to seek out much fic for, say, One Piece; it's already there in the show. And it's kind of a relief on several levels to hear that SPN is so much that way -- not just because I want to see it, but also because if I get obsessed with writing fic for another show right now, I may have to quit my job or else give up sleeping. *grin*

Actually just at the moment there's a lot of dramatic shows on TV with a family focus, or at least a strong family element. Other than SPN and Numb3rs (my two faves!) there's the brothers of Prison Break and the various family dynamics of Heroes (two of the main chars are brothers and two others are married with a kid) And Smallville has always had a strong family element with the Kents (and the mirror-image effed up Luthor relationships). My sister and I have in fact been speculating that the recent influx of brotherliness might be anti-slash backlash - "We'll show these guys being loving, but see, they're brothers, so no gay!" (Poor innocent TPTB who don't know about the incest thing...)

Well, a lot of people don't seem to consider fic unnecessary to SPN, so I can't guarantee it will work that way for you. But for us anyway, fic-reading is a frustrating experience, just because for any story I read (since I have no interest in Wincest ^^;) I start thinking, 'oh, but I'd like to see this in the show - oh wait, I might!' And then it's more fun to just wait for it. (I think it also hampers fic-writing. When I write fic, I'm always thinking 'Well, would X char really say this in this situation? What would I have to do to him to make him plausibly say this to Y char?' In SPN, for an increasing number of scenarios we already know what the chars are going to say...)

But I'm curious to see SGA too, because there is a lot to be said for subtext, friend-wise as well as slash!

It's hilarious that we're having THIS conversation NOW, because last night's episode of SGA (or Monday's? anyway, the most recent one) was like the episode that the smarm and h/c freaks have been waiting for. OH MY GOD. That was quite possibly the smarmiest episode of any show I've ever seen. Moreso than, say, SG-1 in its heyday, and that show had always been one of the gold standards of smarm for me. This was the episode that a lot of fans (including me) have been waiting for ... I'm a total puddle of fannish goo. And now I've been having conversations with some of the ficcers I know, to the effect of "What the heck do we write about NOW?" The subtext is all actual text! LOL ...

Poor TPTB, trying to thwart the slashers ... there's just no hope. *grin* It does seem like anymore, it's just something that the writers have got to relax and not worry too much about. It's not like anything they do can prevent it. Just look at some of the truly INSANE slash pairings ... Characters get slashed who never even MET in canon.

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Feeling more balanced now

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