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I've spent the last couple of days being gloomy and glooming all over my friends' comment pages due to Comicon con reports on the SGU panel. Unlike most of the rest of fandom, I wasn't especially upset about the cancellation (when it was first announced, anyhow) and was curious about the new show. On the other hand, every bit of PR and casting info that's trickled out of Bridge Studios over the last year has made me want to see it less, and the Comicon interviews with Brad Wright were really the icing on the cake of DO NOT WANT: at this point, I pretty much want nothing to do with anything that has Brad Wright's name on it, including SGA. It's like an awesome case study in how to take an enthusiastic fanbase and turn them against you.

On the other hand, it kind of puts the bitterness in perspective to think about the many, many other cancellations of shows I've loved over the years, and the different circumstances surrounding each of them. Basically the options are: a) cut down in its prime, b) staggered to a pathetic conclusion several years too late, or c) satisfying conclusion that happened at the right time. Off the top of my head, I can think of ONE good example of "c" (and a few more I've heard about, for shows I haven't seen). Heck, Star Trek, the archetype of sci-fi fandom and one of my favorite TV shows of all time, lurched through three rather uneven seasons before shuffling off the TV coil and didn't pick up in movies 'til, what, 12 or 15 years later? There was next to no chance that SGA would buck the odds and be one of the rare instances of option "c". Actually I think it's pretty cool that it's still supporting a fairly active and enthusiastic fandom. I just wish I could get past the bitterness and gloom to enjoy it.

(Also, I'm still sad about missing the Being Human panel at Comicon. I wish I'd known they were going in time enough to make plans -- despite the fact that it would have thrown a major wrench in the rest of my plans for the summer, I might have found a way to go! When else could I possibly have a chance to see them?)

But I'm currently packing for Writercon and I'm awfully excited about that. Though it's been kind of tricky to explain to my RL friends and family (who don't know about my fannish activities) just where exactly I'm going. "A science fiction writer's convention" seems to be the explanation that satisfies most of them, since they know that I write, just not that I write fanfic too.

greyias,

sgatazmy and I will be running a panel on h/c at Writercon -- Saturday from 2-3:30. Come by if you're around!

I'll be traveling until the 14th of August -- I'm sure I'll have intermittent Internet access at hotels and such, but I probably won't be around much. (Not that this is too different from the current situation.)

Edit: Oh crappity, I totally forgot to go vote in the Stargate Fan Awards! Though looking at the website, I see they've extended voting 'til Aug. 15. That'll help ...

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What have you been hearing about SGU, pray tell? I've been checking out the official website out of morbid curiosity, and it sounds so much like a remake of Battlestar Galactica that if I had been truly interested in it, I would no longer be. I didn't watch BSG and never regretted it, so more of the same in what had been my bestest favourite fandom is one hell of a DO NOT WANT for me.

Also, all the guys are ugly. Well, the slacker Wallace is cute. And so is Lou Diamond Phillips, but he's toast. Where are my gorgeous hero boys?

The Being Human panel at Comic Con was freaking AWESOME. They're so cute together! I just wanted to hug them all! Although going to it meant I had to sit through the Torchwood panel as well, which was much less fun-- lots of pissed off fans asking Pointed Questions due to certain recent events.

Anyways, I was lucky enough to go through the BH autograph signing line twice-- apparently pulling my hair out of its ponytail is a good enough disguise so that they didn't recognize me -__-; -- and, since it's entirely your fault that I got into Being Human, I was wondering if you'd like one of the signed postcard doohickies? I don't actually need two of them.

What have you been hearing about SGU, pray tell?

... oh god, where to START.

They've been hammering and hammering the DARKER! MORE MATURE! thing from the beginning, along with reminders that they'll be killing off characters, and now, comments from Wright that all the characters have "hero and villain qualities" and vacillate between good and bad -- all of which indicates to me that there's little point in getting invested in (or liking) any of them. But having realized that they're scaring off Stargate fans, now Wright's saying that the show won't be *that* dark and will still include the same wacky humor as the previous two series, and the only thing it really has in common with BSG is that it'll use shaky handheld camera work. New, darker, different! But just the same wacky hijinks you've come to expect! Now with 50% more motion sickness!

Not to mention that it's being written by the same batch of writers from SGA -- who have proven that they aren't very good at writing the specific things that are being hyped for SGU (darker plots, continuing storylines, romance). Why would you take a writing team and hand them a show that specifically plays to their weaknesses? That's just stupid!

Also, apparently SGU actually costs $1 mil more per episode than SGA to make. But they didn't make a 6th season of SGA because they couldn't afford it?

And the casting is rage-inducing. SGA, at least in the beginning, was a distinct step forward from the fairly low bar set by SG1: a female leader (who was never played or hyped as a sex symbol), a primary gate team that was half PoC. In SGU, all the major roles are white boys; the only female characters I saw in the promo stuff are hawt young things in low-cut shirts; the one black character is also a) the only military character who doesn't seem to be an officer, and b) the one who's described in the promo character descriptions as a loose cannon with a homicidally violent streak.

And Wallace is totally a young Rodney, to the extent that every line he spoke in the Comicon preview could be lifted and placed in Rodney's mouth without any changes. Not only are they using basically the same premise from SGA, but stripped of most of the things that made it unique and interesting, but they've apparently recast the same characters!

Carlyle's raspy-voiced, long-haired scruff is totally my kind of thing, but right now I don't think it's much compensation for the gigantic load of DO NOT WAAAAAAANT that goes along with the rest of it. Also, from the preview (this may be a spoiler, though it's mostly speculation on my part) I think he goes darkside.

Edited 2009-07-30 20:59 (UTC)

Oh, I want to hear about what Brad Wright said in that interview too! Do you have a link, or can you give a brief summary? I'm sharpening my sword!

I think I have just fallen in love with Being Human but have only seen the first episode. I believe the panel is up on YouTube, but I haven't watched yet because I'm afraid of spoilers. You could look for it; it's not the same as being there, but it beats nothing!

Have fun at WriterCon!

eeeee! I would totally LOVE a signed postcard. :D Do you have my address, or do you need it?

Lucky you, getting to see them! They all look so adorable in behind-the-scenes videos; they really look like they have a lot of fun and enjoy each other's company.

I love Being Human; it's totally my happy place right now. I was aware there was a video floating around, but hadn't had a chance to sit down and watch it (due to packing and errand-running for Writercon). Perhaps I'll have a chance a little later.

I summarized in my comment above to

taste_is_sweet. Links, hmm ... I've kinda been link-surfing all over and haven't really bothered keeping any of them open. Here (http://www.cinemaspy.com/article.php?id=2855) is where they talk about SGU's higher-than-SGA budget and how it's going to be gritty and yet fun, too! (Also, you get to see a cast shot of Team Bland. More unappealing cast shots of Team Bland are here. (http://stargate.mgm.com/browse/characters/index.html) I remind myself that the cast photography for the Stargate shows is always bad and I didn't find the SGA cast very appealing in the premiere either, but STILL.)

Ha! you lucky dog! I didn't manage to get through/into the mess for autographs, I had just grabbed some of the unsigned postcards for

friendshipper

I don't believe I have your address, no. PM me and I'll get it sent off sometime in the next couple days~ :)

They *are* adorable! There was all this casual touching-ness up on the panel, and they looked so happy to be there (although slightly freaked out by all the people-- they were in Ballroom 20, which fits about 6,000, and the place was absolutely packed), and it all just made my heart go 'awwwwwww.'

Aaaaargh!! O BRAD WRIGHT NO! Why must you make me embarrassed to have ever liked your eps?? (seriously, he wrote some of my favorites in SGA, but everything he's said lately...aargh!)

...Also, hadn't seen the cast pictures you posted in comments above. Wow. White guy central, much? SGA didn't do great on the diversity fronts, but at least they tried...looks like they've stopped trying. Sigh...

It actually wasn't all that difficult to get the autographs, which really surprised me (although not as much in hindsight-- it is a new show, after all). The booth had been giving out tickets for the signing at 9:00 that morning, but by the time I got there at 9:50 they were all gone. But when it came time for the signing I decided to wander by anyways-- I figured if nothing else, I could snap a few pictures from afar-- and when I got there, the lady at the booth ushered me right into the line. *shrug* It was moving fast enough that I got in and out in about five minutes, plus another two minutes to get back in line for a second go-round.

eeeee! Thank you for thinking of me! ^_^

Wright has the WORST case of foot-in-mouth I've ever seen. I didn't hear anything new at the panel that I hadn't heard online already.

New/darker/edgyer. bleah. Just excuse to kill characters. You know, that's why I lost interest in BSG! (and lost and heroes) Too Dark, too violent. It was good to begin with, then no hope! So I'd watch, then watch something to cheer myself up. I'm certainely not fanish at all with BSG, and I don't buy anything with it (DVDs/shirts/etc).

I THINK the thing with Carlyle's Rush is that he doesn't WANT to go home. He's running away from his life-dead wife. So, he'll be doing nasty things to make sure they DON'T get home, which will put him in opposition with everyone else. Which yea, it happens in RL - but do I want to see that? no. It doesn't endear the character to the viewing audience.

AAARGH I KNOW. I guess we'll see, because my initial reaction to SGA, even the premiere, was very unimpressed. But ... it's sort of like, not only did they not learn from all the things they messed up in SGA, but they seem determined to do their mistakes EVEN WORSE this time around! aaaaauuuuggghhhhh... XD

pm'd! Thank you again. :)

I can only imagine they'd be totally cute in real life. I'm really glad that BBC is giving the show a lot of hype in America -- it totally deserves it, and maybe when it starts airing here, the fandom will pick up a bit! It's been totally dead since the show ended its first run on BBC.

See, I really can go for that in small doses; I love to be surprised, and some of the things I've really enjoyed have had a dark edge to them. But when the show is hyped that way, and when they just keep pushing the darkness until you don't care about any of the characters -- that's a big turn-off for me. I made it through 3 seasons of Lost before finally getting to the point where I hated ALL the characters and was rooting for them all to die. I was interested in watching BSG at first, but the more I heard of "It's dark! It's edgy! EVERYONE DIES!" the less I wanted to see it. I love watching flawed-but-likable characters struggle through adversity and eventually make it out. Watching unlikable people betray each other and die ... it just isn't my cup of tea, to put it mildly! This is why I don't read a whole lot of "literary" fiction; it's beautifully written, but the people are so dark and ugly that I don't want to know them.

Ha! you made it farther with Lost than I did! I really liked season 1... then faded pretty quick in season 2 when it was all of a sudden how fast they could kill everyone.

BSG - hard to say. It was well written (they could keep in character and remember what happened last week), critics loved it, but it didn't really have huge viewing numbers. And it had no humor. Every episode was like taking three hugely angst stories and packing it into ONE episode. Oh.. you discover you're a cylon, your wife is sleeping with someone else AND is pregnant - all at once! Then next week, your best friend dies, you have to kill someone (or you have to kill your best friend) AND you wife's kid is someone elses! then...!! you get the picture. It was like being on a rollercoaster. I almost wanted to say STOP FOR GOD'S SAKE!

And they want to do this to SGU? No. You'd think SG writers can see that the 'kill everyone' thing doesn't work as well as they think it is, look how much Heroes has fallen since doing the dark and kill more. You just don't care, and they can't seem to realize that.

We are fans because we like the characters, want to see them succeed, want to BE them. They lucked out with SGA in getting some good actors, who had great chrisma with each other and it clicked.

It'll be in the mail tomorrow!

I think they've actually already started airing it-- Sunday nights on BBC America, I believe? The Twitter masses seem to be enjoying it, at least.

Edited 2009-07-30 23:05 (UTC)

there's little point in getting invested in (or liking) any of them
That's what I'm afraid of. Well, better to know it going in than to get surprised. I bonded with some Torchwood characters. head:desk

the one black character is also a) the only military character who doesn't seem to be an officer, and b) the one who's described in the promo character descriptions as a loose cannon with a homicidally violent streak.
What infuriates me most is that I read the casting calls, and that character was NOT described as (b) when they first went out. The first time I saw him described that way was with the description that went out with the cast announcement and initial photos. The previous two shows have a bad history of making people of color the aliens, but at least they weren't psychopathic aliens! Teyla can kill you with one hand tied behind her back, but she's also the most diplomatic and friendliest member of the team!

Pure speculation, without having seen the previews, and knowing nothing of anyone's contract: since they announced the casting, I've wondered if Robert Carlyle is slated to be another Robert Patrick. Use the big name to attract viewers, but don't let him get more than a few episodes, because that's too darned expensive! (Although if they're keeping him, it might be part--but only part--of why it's so much more expensive than SGA.)

Yes! Heroes too! My husband still watches it--and then he tells me if there are any good Hiro and Ando scenes, and runs them back on the TiVo for me! That's all I watch!

I saw most of BSG. I wish I'd quit sooner, and permanently--I came back for the ending, and ended up tuning in several shows too earlier, before the final episode really ticked me off.

And Wallace is totally a young Rodney, to the extent that every line he spoke in the Comicon preview could be lifted and placed in Rodney's mouth without any changes.

omg wtf...Rodney was one of the bestest things about SGA from the start. They shouldn't mess with that by creating a character that piggybacks on his!

I have been completely unspoilled about SGU and intend to remain so until an actual episode hits the screen -- which is likely to be never.

[. Watching unlikable people betray each other and die ... it just isn't my cup of tea, to put it mildly! This is why I don't read a whole lot of "literary" fiction; it's beautifully written, but the people are so dark and ugly that I don't want to know them.]

Wow, this is so like...me! :)

I need to believe in something in order to be interested in it. This is why I stopped watching Heroes by the end of season 2...there just wasn't anyone there I wanted to know. And Lost just seems to never learn from what happened before and people just sink further and further into despair/stupidity?

One thing I loved about SG-1 so much is that the situation of earth improved somehow with each season. Like, first they were completely playing catch the Goa'uld, then they were capable of resisting them, then they could actually defend the earth, etc...Some kind of positive direction (with, obviously, setbacks). I dislike shows which seem to churn and churn and go nowhere because this is usually a result of active stupidity on the part of the characters (i.e. writers writing them making stupid decisions for the sake of advancing the plot). Do not want! :)

All I can think of every time I see anything about SGU is BATTLESTAR!Gate. BSG did far more than just "inform" this show; it's a direct attempt to rip off BSG's critical appeal and accolades and shove it down the SG universe's throat. Watching the trailer just drove that home. Oh, and gee, look! BSG just finished their run, and we have a NEW! and Improved! (i.e. Darker!Grittier!BSGer!) Stargate show to slot right in.

So not going to work.

Like I told

jimandblair, I think they're angling for BSG's fans to make up for any SG fen they lose, but they've missed the points that a) there was probably a lot of crossover already between the two fandoms, and b) BSG, for all its dark and dreary and depressing had awesome characters and coherent story arcs and some damned, damned good writing a lot of the time--not to mention they knew how to write strong women and women leaders. BSG fans will find out quickly that is not the case with the SG writers or stories. Characters exist to serve a) the adolescent wish-fulfillment of the writers and b) the plot of the week and c) female characters are there primarily for point a), the wish-fulfillment of the overgrown, immature males writing the show.

I love your assessment of how this series is being handed to a group of writers whose very weaknesses are what's being hyped about the show.

I honestly hope they crash and burn, much as I would love to see Ming-Na in a regular series again. But she's one of the "temporary" characters anyway.

/bitter old fanhag rant]

Yeah; when I first heard about SGU, my first thought was Voyager, but the more hype came out, the more obvious it became that they were very blatantly ripping off BSG. Except, as usual when people try to cash in on the success of something, it's the superficial aspects that they grabbed onto -- just like Disney thinking that the success of Pixar's movies is due to the new shininess of computer animation and not because they're well-written and full of heart, these guys think the secret to BSG's critical acclaim is darkness, character deaths and skinny young people having sex. Blech. Like you said, what kept people coming back to BSG in spite of its darkness was sharp writing and nuanced, ground-breaking characters.

Seeing how Smallville has run for nine seasons, I wouldn't be surprised if this show can get at least a couple of seasons, if not more, no matter how bad it is. There just isn't much sci-fi on TV right now. And who knows ... maybe they'll make it work? But I'm not holding out vast amounts of optimism ... or really any at all.

Actually I do remember the psychopath thing being in the casting call; there was a bit of speculation at the time that they'd cast him as a PoC (especially since it was one of the only character descriptions that specified "any ethnicity"), and lo and behold, to no one's surprise, they did!

It's really a shame that SGA didn't go ahead and carry on what they started in the first season, because they really did have a decent start -- besides Teyla, they also had a reasonable number of PoC actors in the supporting cast, and if they'd been able to build on that, it might have been something pretty cool. But no; instead, they took off ALL their non-alien PoC at the start of season two (you almost have to try to achieve something that blatant; even at the time, at the height of my squee for the show, it bothered me), and replaced them with characters like Lorne (nothing against Lorne, but if they were going to eliminate Ford AND Bates AND Grodin all at once, was it too much to ask that even one of the new recurring Earth people in season two wasn't white ...?). Frustrating. And from the look of SGU, they've given up even trying at this point.

I don't expect Carlyle to last the whole season, but they could surprise me. If he turns out to be a major fan favorite, they'd be pretty stupid to kill him off ... though they've been that stupid before!

Edited 2009-07-31 00:59 (UTC)

You know, it would be really interesting to see what changes in the production/direction/writing staff took place from season 1 to season 2, because those changes were so drastic, and not just in terms of the international composition of the expedition. Then again, the laziness of the writing/producing staff there is epic, and they could just have decided that it was too "hard" to keep trying to bring in the international flavor--just like they kept recycling the same, lame "native" cultures for so many of their episodes.

Edited 2009-07-31 01:07 (UTC)

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