Babylon 5 5x19-21

[sholio]

I am done! Well, except for all the movies, the tie-ins, the animated movie, etc ... but at this point I'm no longer avoiding spoilers and consider myself done with the main run of canon.


Orion and I both cried our way through the back half of the finale. But in a good way?

I had wondered how they were going to handle four episodes that were basically all falling action after the main plot wrapped up, but I really enjoyed it; it gave the characters and relationships plenty of time to breathe, and never felt padded. (I did wish we'd gotten one scene with Vir and G'Kar; I was hoping for that, since they really never got to interact at all.) Sheridan and G'Kar's goodbye was wonderful, though. "That's the first time you've ever called me John."

The melancholy repeating scenes of different characters walking to their ships as they all leave the station in different ways, for different reasons, going on to different destinies, was great. It really has that feeling of growing up and leaving a place and moving on to new futures elsewhere.

Garibaldi's goodbye to Sheridan and Delenn. <3

And I love how Sheridan and Delenn moving their ship out, and then the view of the new B5 crew and ambassadors, gives you such a nice sense of the station being handed off into new and capable hands.

Londo got one last halfway pleasant evening with Sheridan and Delenn, even. (Even if the reasons behind it were horrifying.) The part where he tells them that they'll always be his friends and they can't know how much this means to him, and you can tell that's actually Londo talking, not Londo behind the Emperor facade or being ordered around by the Drakh. T_T (I realized in retrospect that the "you did well, you have an hour free" was a flashback, not happening in the present time; he got some time alone with them, which he almost never gets, and it's so heartbreaking to see his goodbye in that light: a little unmonitored time with his friends, when he can relax and be himself around them. Which you can see him doing in that last scene with them; the slightly ribald joking is a quick flash of Londo as he was, not Londo as he has had to become - and watching the shutters slam down and the light go out of his eyes when he has to return to his life is just heartbreaking.)

And Delenn almost saw the Keeper for a minute there, too. *busily slotting into fixit ideas* Also, when Londo is asking if they have any alcohol, any at all - I wonder if he was toying with the idea of trying to put it to sleep and tell them right there, rather than betray them as he ends up having to do.

On the topic of betrayal, Lennier leaving Sheridan to die - I did not expect that AT ALL! And then he snaps almost immediately, and he's going to go back but Sheridan has already rescued himself and they'll never know - can never trust - that he would have saved him. Agh, this show.

I also really enjoyed the glimpses of everyone at the end of the penultimate episode when Sheridan is dictating his letter to his unborn child, telling his hypothetical 21-year-old all the things he's learned from all the people he's known. ♥

And - the finale! I really love seeing where they all ended up. (I also love that we already saw Londo and G'Kar's ending back in season three, and the show doesn't rehash it; we already know what happened to them.) Even Ivanova! I was delighted she got to be there! Garibaldi has kids and remains close with Stephen; Vir is apparently thriving and rebuilding his world (and Zack is there on Centauri Prime with him at the end, too). I loved their dinner and the toast to absent and lost friends. Delenn and Sheridan's goodbye - "I'm going for a Sunday drive" was when the waterworks started .... how is it that the show tells you where all of this is going, exactly what's going to happen, and still makes it absolutely wrenching? And then "It's a lovely day for a drive" the next morning - STAAAAHP. Walking around the empty station; the station and Sheridan going out more or less together.

And, after Sheridan's ending, that lovely touch of seeing everyone once again when the station is shut down for the last time. (Love that Vir gives B5 the same little wave he gave Morden's head on a pike. I love Vir.) Delenn leaving space on the bench for Sheridan when she watches the sunrise. T_T

And that final credits montage of all the first and last appearances of the characters, from their first episode through whatever we saw of their ending. <3

Really, I think that was one of the best TV finales I've ever watched. This show has been a wonderful experience, and I'm so glad I finally got to watch the whole thing.

Comments

[selenak]

It is one of the best finales ever. I remember Alan Sepinwall, back when it was first broadcast, writing he'd been afraid there'd be an artificial crisis with Sheridan saving the day one last time, going out as an action hero, but no, instead, we got The Grey Havens, and so wonderfully done. Did you recognize JMS himself? He's the worker switching off the lights of the station. It's the only cameo he gave himself in the show. I still can't watch this episode without crying, in the best way.

[sholio]

In 30 years of marriage, the only other thing I can remember that I've ever watched with my husband that made him cry is the Pixar movie "Up." And I'm not exactly a soft touch either, I can count on the fingers of one or maybe two hands the canons in my entire lifetime that made me cry, and I knew it was going to be sad and went in thinking I was prepared, but still - if not precisely bawling, then definitely dribbling through the last half hour of the show! It was just really, really well done. And I had no idea about JMS; what a lovely place to put himself, throwing the switch to shut down the station for the last time.

[sovay]

Orion and I both cried our way through the back half of the finale. But in a good way?

*hugs*

(I did wish we'd gotten one scene with Vir and G'Kar; I was hoping for that, since they really never got to interact at all.)

*cough*fic*cough*

(I also support exploring Delenn's ability to sense Drakh influence, as she did with the Shadows around Morden.)

Also, when Londo is asking if they have any alcohol, any at all - I wonder if he was toying with the idea of trying to put it to sleep and tell them right there, rather than betray them as he ends up having to do.

That was my bet. He wasn't banking on finding a dry household, even on Minbar.

On the topic of betrayal, Lennier leaving Sheridan to die - I did not expect that AT ALL! And then he snaps almost immediately, and he's going to go back but Sheridan has already rescued himself and they'll never know - can never trust - that he would have saved him. Agh, this show.

I am admittedly ambivalent about that development, since at least in memory his entire betrayal plot came out of hard left field in the second half of the season. I do not know if it is canonically known what became of him.

Even Ivanova! I was delighted she got to be there!

I missed Ivanova so much throughout the fifth season and was so happy with her new beginning.

Vir is apparently thriving and rebuilding his world (and Zack is there on Centauri Prime with him at the end, too).

YES. The reassurance that he kept growing into the person he was meant to be, that his homeworld needed, and it didn't wreck him, either.

how is it that the show tells you where all of this is going, exactly what's going to happen, and still makes it absolutely wrenching?

It's unfair.

And that final credits montage of all the first and last appearances of the characters, from their first episode through whatever we saw of their ending.

The blitz of all the crew and production staff and everyone else I have never actually pressed pause on but I am sure someone on the internet has!

I'm so glad it was wonderful for you.

[sholio]

(I also support exploring Delenn's ability to sense Drakh influence, as she did with the Shadows around Morden.)

I forgot she was aware of the Shadows also! And it feels very deliberate that *both times* she's visibly trying to figure out what is up with Londo, she's interrupted by Lennier's situation, first with the call at dinner, then with Sheridan bringing it up before she can question what she just saw of Londo's emotional state. I also expect this is the last time they saw him up close, in person, before their final interactions as shown in season three; his goodbye here feels very final. Anyway, it gives me grand fodder for fixits with just a little bit of pushing or tweaking.

That was my bet. He wasn't banking on finding a dry household, even on Minbar.

Yeah, and it's also telling that his keeper/minders knew better than to let him bring alcohol. I also think he came planning and hoping to use his new trick to tell them the truth, even if it cost him his life; then he had to go through with the Drakh plan anyway, and got his promised reward, but at such a cost. He would have stopped it if he could have.

I am admittedly ambivalent about that development, since at least in memory his entire betrayal plot came out of hard left field in the second half of the season. I do not know if it is canonically known what became of him.

Also very ambivalent! Lennier's moment of weakness, not pushing the button to let Sheridan out, feels very so-to-speak human, but there's also the entire season pushing him towards a doomed-by-the-narrative betrayal that I'm not sure I fully buy.

The reassurance that he kept growing into the person he was meant to be, that his homeworld needed, and it didn't wreck him, either.

Vir!! I found myself hoping that the Centauri girls in his bed are there because they genuinely like him and not just because he's the emperor. All he wanted was a good job and a wife who loved him for himself. I hope that in the end, he got both of those things. In any case, he's doing a good job. (The utter tragedy of Londo is that Londo could also have been a good emperor if he had been allowed to be, but no more than we see of Vir as emperor, it's evident that he is leading them into a better time, and not losing himself in the process.)

I also found this amazing thing on Tumblr (from the books, apparently?) and what I wouldn't have given to see Vir's city-scale Londo and G'Kar statues in the actual show, watching each other's backs into eternity.

The blitz of all the crew and production staff and everyone else I have never actually pressed pause on but I am sure someone on the internet has!

I also did not, but I love the show actually doing ISN credit voiceovers on top of the actual credits!

I'm so glad it was wonderful for you.

It truly, truly was.

[sholio]

p.s. I can't remember exactly where we were originally talking about this, but here's the "put four war criminals in a room and expect them to invent galactic peace" post!

https://www.tumblr.com/deadheaddaisy/746249591441244160

[lyr]

Many finales stumble; it's hard to find a good tone to end on. There are other ways that probably could have worked, even. But I like the closure of B5's end. The universe goes on, even most of the characters go on. But you still get the feeling that the end of an era has come and it's time to bid it goodbye. I choke up still when the station is destroyed - not as it often nearly was in defeat, but because it succeeded in serving its purpose and its moment is over. "It was the last of the Babylon stations; there would never be another."

[sholio]

Yes! I love how tragic and final the destruction of the station feels, even though it's intentional. (And also I believe fulfills the seer's prophesy about its blowing up from season one!) I like that we linger on it as if it's the death of a character - because it is. And also that some of the characters get lovely, joyous old ages, and some get tragedy, and a few get something in between - because that's life, too.

And yes, as they say in the show, its purpose is over - the Alliance is now fulfilling the function that Babylon 5 was built for. And that is really the best thing that a station dedicated to peace could achieve.

[sovay]

I also expect this is the last time they saw him up close, in person, before their final interactions as shown in season three; his goodbye here feels very final. Anyway, it gives me grand fodder for fixits with just a little bit of pushing or tweaking.

I look forward to the fix-its, because seriously.

his keeper/minders

He calls them his associates, a word freighted with implications post-Morden. He was trying to signal as best he could.

I also think he came planning and hoping to use his new trick to tell them the truth, even if it cost him his life; then he had to go through with the Drakh plan anyway, and got his promised reward, but at such a cost. He would have stopped it if he could have.

Yes. See above under seriously.

Lennier's moment of weakness, not pushing the button to let Sheridan out, feels very so-to-speak human, but there's also the entire season pushing him towards a doomed-by-the-narrative betrayal that I'm not sure I fully buy.

If it was always planned, I am guessing that arc was a casualty of the Season 5 pacing, but . . . eh.

Vir!! I found myself hoping that the Centauri girls in his bed are there because they genuinely like him and not just because he's the emperor.

He's adorable! Who wouldn't like him! I can't but imagine he gets an embarrassing number of offers on a regular basis.

(One of the elements from the books which I choose to accept is that he does get a love match for an empress.)

I also found this amazing thing on Tumblr (from the books, apparently?) and what I wouldn't have given to see Vir's city-scale Londo and G'Kar statues in the actual show, watching each other's backs into eternity.

DAMMIT I WANT THAT FANART.

I also did not, but I love the show actually doing ISN credit voiceovers on top of the actual credits!

Yes! It's a wonderful bit of meta that does not implode the show.

It truly, truly was.

*hugs*

[sovay]

p.s. I can't remember exactly where we were originally talking about this, but here's the "put four war criminals in a room and expect them to invent galactic peace" post!

It's so true! Thanks for finding it for me.

[sovay]

(And also I believe fulfills the seer's prophesy about its blowing up from season one!)

Yes! Another foreseen end that is something very different from what it seems.

[hamsterwoman]

The melancholy repeating scenes of different characters walking to their ships as they all leave the station in different ways, for different reasons, going on to different destinies, was great. It really has that feeling of growing up and leaving a place and moving on to new futures elsewhere.

The ending of B5 and the Grey Havens in LotR stand out for me as pieces of long fiction that manage to strike just the right note with the final good-bye, where it's both properly sad that it's over like the viewer is, but also it feels fitting and inevitable and.

On the topic of betrayal, Lennier leaving Sheridan to die - I did not expect that AT ALL! And then he snaps almost immediately, and he's going to go back but Sheridan has already rescued himself and they'll never know - can never trust - that he would have saved him. Agh, this show.

I couldn't remember how late in s5 this scene occurs, and so have been waiting for it to pop up in your reaction. I hate that development for Lennier, but it is such an interesting piece of narrative! Because as you say, it is a temporary moment of weakness, giving in to his worst impulses, and he was going back -- but it is too late to fix his choice even though Sheridan is fine. I did not notice at the time, but when I was rewatching the earlier seasons, that choice of Lennier's occurred to me really strongly during the episode where he risks his life to rescue Londo -- while Londo is pretty much at his most terrible. Because it's such a contrast -- Lennier choosing to risk his life to do the right thing because it is the right thing to save ANY life, however he feels about the actions of the person in question, and here in s5 he has a moment where he could've helped Sheridan, a good man doing good things on a grand scale, with no risk to himself... Discovering that bit of setup kind of reconciled me to the s5 scene, because it's just so cleverly seeded and echoed, like so many things about this show.

It has been a joy to read along as you mainlined this show of my heart. ♥

(I have also not watched most of the movies or the animated one. I think you're probably fine. But if you do watch them, maybe that will be my cue to finally do so as well...)

[sheron]

♥

[aelfgyfu_mead]

I cried so hard at the end of the episode that I still remember it. I have forgotten a lot of the show, and many of my own reactions, but my gosh, how wrenching it was knowing that Delenn was losing Sheridan and was going to live a really long time without him!

Must rewatch.

[sholio]

It has been a joy to read along as you mainlined this show of my heart. ♥

I have had such a good time! <333 I've suspected for a number of years that this show would really suck me down. But wow, it did. I think I can safely say this show is going to be part of my mental landscape in the same way that some of my other formative canons are. Anyway, I've been delighted having people to discuss it with, as well!

The ending of B5 and the Grey Havens in LotR stand out for me as pieces of long fiction that manage to strike just the right note with the final good-bye, where it's both properly sad that it's over like the viewer is, but also it feels fitting and inevitable and.

It really does feel like an ending in the way that many endings don't. And it feels appropriate, sad, and final all at the same time.

I did not notice at the time, but when I was rewatching the earlier seasons, that choice of Lennier's occurred to me really strongly during the episode where he risks his life to rescue Londo -- while Londo is pretty much at his most terrible. Because it's such a contrast -- Lennier choosing to risk his life to do the right thing because it is the right thing to save ANY life, however he feels about the actions of the person in question, and here in s5 he has a moment where he could've helped Sheridan, a good man doing good things on a grand scale, with no risk to himself... Discovering that bit of setup kind of reconciled me to the s5 scene, because it's just so cleverly seeded and echoed, like so many things about this show.

Oh, how interesting - that's such a fascinating echo, that I did not see at all! Good catch!

I absolutely love how the show has echoes within echoes; I knew just enough of where it was going to catch a number of them that I probably wouldn't have on a first-time viewing, but I'm sure I missed a bunch of them that I hope I'll catch on rewatches and general thinking over earlier episodes for fic purposes. What a fantastic experience this has been.

[sholio]

I enjoy that you're still reading along. ♥

[sholio]

I have cried at so few canons that I can generally remember all of them, and this was certainly one of the weepiest I have experienced as an adult! I think this one was particularly gut-wrenching to be watching with my longtime spouse when we were both being hit hard by it.