Hi f'list, how are you?

[sholio]

I haven't been around much lately. November has been a busy month. But I'm feeling happily accomplished; I've finished all my holiday gift-exchange fics and a handful of pending original projects (all I have left now is the story I signed up to write at lostcityfound, which isn't due 'till early January) and I did quite a bit of freelance this month as well (because fanfic, fun as it is, doesn't pay the bills). I'll be heading out of town on Friday, and I'm only working two days this week, so my plans for the week basically involve some semi-leisurely Christmas shopping, putting together my holiday boxes and getting them in the mail, baking stuff, and playing with my shiny new MacBook. *pets it*

A handful of recs and links:

Push Until It Holds by zillah975 (SGA, John/Ronon and mostly-onesided John/Rodney, NC-17, contains BDSM)
This is one of this year's sgabigbang stories (thus, it's long, about 50K words) and it's the current featured discussion story at sga_talk. I absolutely loved this story -- even though I don't really go for romance as a genre, I love how sex and attraction can, in a good author's hands, be used as a way of exploring and developing character and culture, and this story is a fantastic example of that. But aside from that, it's just a fantastic Atlantis story; it's as much of a team story as a slash story, and the character dynamics are well developed over two and a half slightly-AU seasons. I particularly loved the story's development of Satedan culture and Satedan/Earth sexuality, including the characters' own confusion about where they, themselves, fall within their own culture's norms.

Five Women Who Hate Fleur Delacour by snegurochka_lee (Harry Potter, gen)
I very rarely read HP stories anymore, but I came across this one somehow, and it's wonderful -- a really fascinating look at jealousy and isolation and how we see our own flaws reflected in other people; it made me view Fleur as a much more likable and complex character than I ever found her in the books, without whitewashing her faults.

Semi-nonfannish stuff: How Not To Write a Sex Scene - the short list for the winners of this year's Literary Review Bad Sex Awards: goddawful sex scenes from actual, published novels. And they are hilariously horrible.

The fiction research community little_details (to which I am addicted) has a recent, interesting (to me) thread on heterosexual male friendships; the OP asked how to depict close male friendship, and respondents chimed in with their own experiences or good examples of realistic male friendships from movies and TV (of which someone mentioned SGA ... of course!). It may be of interest to those who write such relationships to see real-life guys talking about their own close friendships with other guys. I was also intrigued by the link to this article on pre-modern same-sex romantic friendship and the way that the modern world has drawn a somewhat arbitrary box called "platonic" and plunked all non-sexual relationships into it; it ties into a recent conversation I was having with xparrot in interesting ways.

I thought I had more links, but apparently not ... perhaps I'll be back if I find more.

Comments

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I love movies precisely because I can enjoy the twists, as I can't with TV shows I'm overly invested in (though I often do enjoy shows without that investment - I'm having a lot of fun with SPN now precisely because I'm not invested; the story twists - what few they manage - don't emotionally disturb me, and instead I can get all excited about sexy angels!) With movies, I will get attached to the characters and relationships to a certain level, but not enough that my heart can be broken if someone dies or whatever; I'm more likely to enjoy the story for what it is, rather than what I wanted it to be. (This is especially good because I actually love black comedy - even unintentional black comedy; I'll go into hysterical fits of laughter at overly dramatic deaths...there's a few anime that have some beautiful ones! And I loved the end of Dr. Horrible, while hating Serenity down to my core.)

I've never actually read any King! More because I've never gotten around to it than any specific reason. George RR Martin is worth it if you're in the mood for really developed pseudo-historical epic fantasy (I have limited patience for such, but he does it awfully well.) I wasn't overly bothered because I went into it knowing not to get too attached to anyone, but at the same time keeping that emotional distance does mean I never quite engage... (FWIW, not everyone dies - at least they haven't yet - there are a couple very unexpected deaths, but the majority of the cast is still hanging on...!)

I don't know why death-fic bothers me so - or fanfic in general, because it's not just deathfic, you've seen me meltdown over OTP-breakage and such! It makes perfect sense to me, that fanfic isn't quite "real" to you, that you can approach & enjoy it partly as original work - but for some reason I have a hard time making the canon-fanfic distinction in my heart. --Or something; it's not quite that, because out-and-out parody fic I can enjoy, and then I take far too much pleasure in badfic...hmm. I don't know what's going on there.

Yes, not wanting anything more out of SGA makes sense to me - I don't have that sense of loss that Firefly gave, no; I'm more distressed by the fandom, if not ending, then changing, the way closed fandoms always do. A lot of my fannish involvement is in absorbing the new episodes as they come, adjusting my fanon to the canon, and I'm sad to be losing that. Though the way the canon has been treating me lately, I'm ready for it to be closed XP

While as NCIS, having just mainlined the series, I'm happy to get a season more of new material, but I'm not going to be actively fanning on it; it's just not that sort of show for me. It'll probably be one of my standby shows, I'll watch it regularly, and once in a while it'll really deliver, in pleasantly unexpected ways - but I'm not going to it looking for anything more than light cuteness. (And team antics featuring female characters I really like, which is always fun!)

trying to interpret others' fannish experiences through the lens my own leads me to think they're not all that fannish about the show, so seeing evidence of current fannish activity throws me off.

I understand the squee-criticism two-step a lot better after Smallville fandom; it is possible to simultaneously love and hate a show. With SV, it was more than I genuinely hated the show but liked the idea of it (helped because SV had the extra Superman canons for support) - and SGA and SPN are problematic enough shows that I can understand having such a reaction. If the concept of the characters/story is compelling enough, you can fall in love with that, but then hate the show itself for betraying that concept. (So you have SGA 'fans' like copperbadge who found the show downright painful to watch, and yet wrote great fic for it - I was surprised by how good his fic is, he knows the characters, and even likes them, by his writing - he just hates what the show's writers did to them!)

While as with me, I can see SGA is hugely flawed, but I genuinely love the show anyway, for the most part, and probably never would've gotten into the fandom if I didn't. But the fans who shred Kripke the most viciously probably do so because they are so invested; if they weren't fans, they wouldn't care.

[friendshipper.livejournal.com]

... I'm sorry, Serenity movie, what movie? THERE IS NO MOVIE. XD

... but, yeah, I know exactly what you mean about how it's sometimes a lot more fun to watch without that layer of intense fannish investment. As much as I enjoy the fannish intensity, it carries a down side and I sometimes enjoy its absence just as much; I've actually been enjoying laughing at SPN over the last season or two, and going online to read the sporking, at least as much if not more than I loved loving the show.

I have to mention again how weird it is, when I stop and think about it, to be more or less permanently installed in a fandom. Cycling in and out ... I totally have a model for that. Having SGA as a steady boyfriend is weird. It's awfully nice, though, because I can go tryst with other fandoms while having this comfortably familiar one to come back to. XD I am really curious if the absence of new canon is going to make me drift away from it, or just make it an even more comfortable place to settle into. Right now, I'm leaning towards the "comfortable place" end of the spectrum, because looking back at the last five seasons, there are so many crevices in canon that I would love to explore. I was just tonight reading a fic that touched briefly on the time in "Last Man" when both Teyla and John were gone, and what it must have been like for Rodney and Ronon to the be only ones left, and I started thinking WHY IS NO ONE WRITING THOSE MISSING SCENES OMG ... I'm really looking forward to having the leisure to explore canon in my own time without having to worry about being jossed or being half-done with a fic when canon comes along and does the same plot (which has happened several times to me now), to be able to do unjossable future fic and stories that aren't going to feel dated within a few months. To stretch the romance metaphor even farther out of shape, it does kind of feel like I'm past the "falling in love" stage with SGA and have settled into a comfortable sort of "happily married" thing with it that seems likely to endure for a while. Odd but true. I've really enjoyed the open-fanon fanning process, like you were talking about -- it's been awhile since I've done that; in fact, I think "Invisible Man" was the last time I had a really active open-fandom experience, which did not end particularly well -- and I am really nervous about how I'll respond to the inevitable shifts in fandom that will result; I'm not looking forward to a mass exodus if it happens, and to suddenly going from 20 or 30 new fics on the newsletter each day to 5. But I sort of get the feeling, though I could always be wrong, that I'm in this one for the long haul. At worst, it might end up being one like "Star Trek" where I drift out, but keep drifting back in again.

I hope you're able to stay; I do like discussing it with you, even though we don't see eye to eye on some of it. ^_^

And I truly don't see anything wrong with being turned off deathfic; I can certainly understand the impulse to dislike it, because it does hit me in the gut and there are always those canon deaths, like in Serenity or Forever Knight, where I hate it so much that I actively write it out of my own personal continuity. ^^;; I just ... I don't know, I can be turned off by it and still like the way it's handled within the story. In fact, the canon deaths I've disliked so much have generally been those where I couldn't see any reason for them to happen in the story; they're pointless deaths, killing off my favorite characters for no apparent reason, when the story could have happened just the same without them.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I've actually been enjoying laughing at SPN over the last season or two, and going online to read the sporking, at least as much if not more than I loved loving the show.

This, exactly! Fannish involvement can be awesome, but it can also be...tiring? It's more relaxing to watch a show not really caring what happens - to be wanting to see this or that, but not be *desperate* to see it, or feel betrayed when it doesn't happen. To watch TV more like a normal person, I guess? (Except fanning does bring its own rewards; "Tao" or "The Shrine" wouldn't hit me like they did without that fannish involvement! --as a side note, I am interested that "The Shrine" wasn't that big a thing for you...to me, "Tao" was more about physical support, John having to be talked into assisting Rodney by Elizabeth; while in "The Shrine" there was so much emotional support, the team and John being there for Rodney - and Rodney knowing them, and calling for John - it was an advancement in their relationship. Though going beyond that, without getting into those gray areas of relationshipping we've been discussing, that would be difficult...)

I'm hoping I can keep a long-term relationship with SGA, because I do love the fandom so...will have to see. I'll keep reading fic in fandoms years after I mostly drift away (I'll still read Sentinel fic, on occasion!) but I rarely can keep writing it...but hey, any committed relationship takes effort, for SGA I'll try! There are fics I want to write, but whether I'll be able to...yeah, will see. (And heh, my own "Last Man" missing scenes fic is actually one of my favorite things I've written for SGA...)

I hope you're able to stay; I do like discussing it with you, even though we don't see eye to eye on some of it. ^_^

Ahah you mean you're not completely exhausted of me yet? You have a very strong constitution! XD

Deathfic...ahhh, the funny thing is that I love presumed-dead fic, the ones where the dead character miraculously returns - I love that sort of extreme angst, but for some reason it only works for me when it ends happily (and I have trouble with happy endings that end with the characters apart. When it comes to my OTPs, I'm actually more satisfied when both chars die, than if one is left surviving alone...)

When it comes to canon character deaths, I'm...um, I'm iffy. Sometimes they have fantastic impact - like in NCIS, I liked Kate, but the way they handled her death was amazing, some of my favorite stuff in the show, and I love Ziva. So it doesn't bother me that Kate died. But I have trouble re-watching the first two seasons, or reading fic set from when Kate is alive; knowing she dies casts a pall on my fanning. I can't let myself fannishly engage, knowing she doesn't have a future.

[friendshipper.livejournal.com]

... it's midnight-thirty, I'm wrapping Christmas gifts to be mailed to my widely scattered family while eating chocolates and intermittently checking LJ. Sometimes, life is just good. XD

You know, while I do hope you stay (and hope I stay, too), the nice thing about losing interest in a fandom is that you really don't miss it once it's gone. At least, I don't; I sometimes feel fuzzily nostalgic for the good times in some of my old fandoms, but not in a "I wish I was there now" kind of way. It's more like remembering my first day of college, or my first con, or the time I drove through a thunderstorm and saw red lightning -- cool experiences to have had, but not something I go around trying to recreate. I don't sit around wishing that I was still massively fannish about DBZ.

And, on that subject, I do think that the reason why I loved "Tao" is that it was an "experience of the moment" kind of deal -- I was just so totally floored by it, and had had a year (give or take) in the fandom to build up to it. Actually, "Sateda" was the episode that really sticks in my head as a watershed moment along those lines for me, and I'm sure that someone who watched the whole series in a marathon would really wonder why; compared to a lot of what came after, "Sateda" is very tame with the team stuff. But after seasons one and two, and then the lackluster nature of the first two episodes, that episode roared into fandom like a freight train; it made me feel the team-love in a way that's kind of indescribable and hard to recapture, but I remember staying up 'til something like 4 a.m. after watching it because I was too wired to sleep, working on the first vid that I managed to finish for the show. ^^

"Shrine" just couldn't be that. It was already past the fandom-first-love stage, for one thing, and for another, I'd been so thoroughly spoiled for most of the good bits already ...! I didn't know all the details, but I knew the basic plot and I knew about the John and Rodney pier scene, if not exactly what was said. It was sweet, but I didn't love it the way I'd loved "Sateda" and "Tao". I do think you're right-on, though, that it was a lovely benchmark in how far the team relationships have come since season three. I was thinking about "Return" tonight after I recced the Jack/Daniel fic to you, and John and Rodney's phone call in it -- after everything that's happened since then (Tao, Doppelganger, Miller's Crossing, Shrine) I can't see one of their conversations going like that; it's gradual, but steady, the drawing-together of the characters. I was blown away by how much closer they were at the end of season three than at the end of season two; I'm blown away all over again when I compare them in this season to where they were in season three.

I guess that's why I just can't bring myself to feel too bothered by Rodney's relationship with Keller -- and I really don't want to get a discussion of that going again, because I'm all squeeful now and I really don't want to be harshed, please. But they're just so close, and their love for each other so deep; I can't see that being lost. (and, hmm, I just saw your other comment addressing that; I'm not only going back and forth between the gifts and typing comments, but between the comment and checking email -- the computer age is all about multi-tasking!)

I love presumed-dead too (it's one of my big buttons) but I also love seeing the characters pull together in the aftermath of a real death. Kate's death is really one of the best I've ever seen; I think they did it wonderfully, but I do agree with you that my interest in watching Kate scenes is kind of nil now. (We talked about this a little with regards to SWAK, I think.)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Mmm, gifts and chocolate - that sounds so cozy! ...even if it does remind me that I have a lot of X-mas shopping yet to do. Eep...!

You know, while I do hope you stay (and hope I stay, too), the nice thing about losing interest in a fandom is that you really don't miss it once it's gone.

Yup, this is true for me, too. The one exception is fic - I'll occasionally have moments of regret that I never wrote a fic in a particular fandom (or finished one. Eheh. *eyes posted WiPs nervously*) But otherwise, yeah, I love fanning, but I don't miss it when it's gone.

...Actually I'm like this with people, more often than not; I have a lot of friends that I love spending time with, and I'm always sad to say goodbye to them, but I don't actively miss them most of the time; I'm an out-of-sight-out-of-mind type. (...Which makes my OTP separation squick sound even weirder, given that it's not how most relationships work for me personally...!)

We didn't talk about SWAK, I don't think? (must have been Naye?) - but, yeah, that's some lovely h/c, but the Kate scenes don't work for me as well on the re-watch. Likewise if they killed any of the team on SGA, it would spoil all the team stuff before it, and I wouldn't be able to write fic without invoking major denial; this is why I prefer status quos in my Type B fandoms (oddly, it doesn't work like that with my Type As; I'll rewatch B5 and still enjoy scenes with characters I know are going to die. No idea what the difference is there!)

--In unrelated news, I would totally drive through a thunderstorm for red lightning...!