ext_49048 ([identity profile] wolfenm.livejournal.com) wrote in [personal profile] sholio 2005-11-10 10:24 pm (UTC)

I know the Blood of Ten Chiefs is kind of quasi-cannon, but in those stories, the Wolfrider population was considerably higher, and children more common -- but still not quite enough to perpetuate the species, in my book, so yeah, I get what you mean -- I've had that thought now and again myself.

But it helps some to remember than a Wolfrider's life-span can be, as was the case of Bearclaw, a thousand years or more. In that span, there could have been a number of elves who were born and then died tragically at like 100 years, but still managed to mate before dying, so those 30 didn't all have to have existed at the same time. And we must remember that their were High Ones and first--and-second-generation true-elves (like Willowgreen) among them at least until Two-Spear's time (according to BotC). I'm prety sure Willowgreen's mother had at least a few offspring. I remember counting the elves during Freefoot's time, and I believe there was about sixty of them then.

Oh, and Pike has had a kid -- or rather, no-one knows if Krim's child is really Pike's or Skot's. Tyleet and Scouter also has a child, Pool, and Strongbow and Moonshade just had their third (Dart's elder sister, Crescent, was killed before he was born). Dart had a child, though I'm not sure what happened to it, and he had a slashy relationship with one Jackwolfrider (Wing's son or descendant, I *think*) who was definitely born after KotBW. And Newstar had Kimo. Skywise had Yun, and I highly suspect Jink was his daughter by Timmain. And since Kahvi turned out to be a Wolfrider, that would technically make Venka, who was roughly Tyleet's age-mate, a Wolfrider by more than proxy (and probably all the rest of the Go-Backs as well, unless there are a few left who are entirely plainsdweller by descent). I'd be harder-pressed to ask where the hell all those Go-Backs came from, when the plainsdwellers that Kahvi was found by weren't all that numerous ... of course, excessive inbreeding (especially without Recognition) would explain how insane they all were ;)

I think Scouter had a sister who was killed before HIS birth as well, if I'm not mistaken. Moonshade had a sister, Brownberry, and One-Eye had a brother, Longbranch/Longbriar (who was about as old as Bearclaw), both of whom were killed by Madcoil, as was Foxfire -- I believe Brownberry may have been Nighfall's mother, if I'm not mistaken. And we know Rain was Rainsong and Pike's father (hey, there's more siblings!) So for all we know, of the other two that were killed, one might have sired Redlance. We know Strongbow was orphaned at a young age, and since Clearbrook and One-Eye are of an age with Treestump, it's likely their parents died long ago, possibly before Redlance, Nightfall, Skywise, or Foxfire's parents were even born. And we know how Shale and Eyes-High, Skywise's parents, were killed.

Skyfire and Two-Spears were thought to be siblings (although according to BotC, they really weren't -- Rahnee's mate, Zarhan, was actually Skyfire's father, not Rahnee's son, Preypacer, because the recognition-mating between Wreath and Prepacer did not take, so I guess it depends on if you consider BotC canon or not). Skyfire had at least two children, one of whom died before or shortly after childbirth. Rahnee supposedly had a number of children (we know of at least four), as did her brother Threetoes and her father Timmorn. Willowgreen had a child by Graywolf for sure, and I think another by Two-Spear sometime after the big tribe-split.

Does that help? :) I think the Wolfriders just had a really bad turn of luck in recent years, and that their ability to breed seems to have waned because a) their gene pool got too small, and b) times were just too dangerous and food scarce. They didn't live near humans very much in their ten-thousand=-year history -- only during Two-Spear's time and then from Mantricker's time onward -- so that may have been a factor in recent years.

I'd like to know how the Sun Folk built up such a large population with only five people to start! I'd have thought inbreeding would have become an issue genetically-speaking soon enough, Recognition or no Recognition!

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