sholio | NCIS - a bit of griping

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NCIS - a bit of griping

We're up to the middle of season 3 now (I think we just finished off the third disc -- or maybe the fourth) and my interest in the show is starting to flag somewhat. It may just be the cumulative effect of having watched two and a half seasons at the rate of 2-4 episodes a day, but lately I'm feeling more annoyed with the show than squeeful about it.

I think part of the problem is that I found Kate and Tony's bickering cute and entertaining (if kind of repetitive at times), but Tony and Ziva's bickering is like fingernails on a blackboard for me. Every time they're in the same room I cringe. It'd be okay if there wasn't that much of it, or if a Tony-and-Ziva episode cropped up every once in a while, but if anything, it's become the focus of the show: Tony and Ziva trapped together, handcuffed together, pretending to be married ... *shriek* Part of it, I guess, is the ramping up of the UST. I liked how Kate and Tony were about 90% platonic. Of all the women in his life, he never hit on her -- despite the snarking and the nosiness about her personal life, there was mostly respect there. With Ziva -- it feels more like he's just trying to get into her pants rather than having any actual interest in her as a person.

*sighs* I just wish there would be more episodes focused on the rest of the cast or the group as a whole. I loved the McGee one, "Probie" -- I don't think I'd be so annoyed with Tony and Ziva if I got to watch something other than the two of them in various strained UST-generating situations. It's definitely giving me sympathy for people who complained about the focus on Sheppard and McKay in SGA's 3rd season, because if you find John and Rodney's bickering annoying, the show must have been almost unbearable. That's how Tony and Ziva have become for me. If they're going to be onscreen a lot, I just wish the characters' relationship would go somewhere already, rather than just recycling the same jokes.

And you know, beyond the in-your-face UST, I think that's a big part of the problem I'm having with both Tony and Ziva: no new material. Every third line is Tony making a sexist joke or Ziva messing up an English idiom, and it's very, very wearing. Tony, in particular, I'm starting to find far more annoying than cute; his juvenile antics are getting so over-the-top that I find him offensive and unprofessional, rather than funny. He's just got no sense of perspective, and feels like he hasn't really grown at all in three seasons, and it's frustrating.

You know what else ... I can't figure out Abby and McGee's relationship. They were pretty obviously sleeping together in early season one ... weren't they? So how'd they get back to UST and acting weird around each other and Abby snapping at McGee if he checks her out? Hasn't he *seen* it all already? It's weird ... sometimes this show is really good with long plot arcs and dealing with the consequences of past episodes (e.g. all the aftermath of Kate's death -- and then I'll feel like they've hit the reset button for some reason.

Okay. Done complaining now. Well, mostly. *g* I do still enjoy the show, but I wish there was a little less of a Tony-and-Ziva focus this season. I don't want those characters to be written out, but I'd like the see them paired off in different combinations for a while. I want Ziva-and-Abby, Tony-and-Gibbs, McGee-and-Ziva (who have hardly even interacted at all) ... or anything, really, as long as it's different.

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Didn't you just about have a heart attack though, at the end of season 2? That was the third or fourth NCIS episode that I watched. "Oh, cute show, wonderful team, love them all" and whoa.

I admit I love Ziva and Tony together. Kate was a bit mean sometimes, a bit too uptight and eager to prove she wasn't into Tony; Ziva banters right back.

You ready for those fic rec's now? :)

It was really well done. I knew that *something* happened to Kate at some point, because in one of the earlier NCIS discussions someone told me that they took Kate off the show (I forget the exact wording now), but that whole episode was really nicely put together. I got the feeling, watching it, that it was one of those "... and in tonight's episode, one of these people will die!" kind of things, because the whole episode was a series of fake-outs (did they kill so & so?) and then leading up to that final shot through the head ... wow.

So far, that's my favorite part of the series ... late season 2 and then the aftermath of Kate's death. I'm not blaming Ziva for the decline in my interest in the show since then (actually, as a character I think she's pretty interesting) but I haven't been as enthusiastic about the show lately. Fanfic ... I'm really feeling kind of "meh" about it right now, but if you have any good recs for Abby fic, I'd take that. :)

Hmmmmmm . . . Okay, I see where you're coming from. When I started getting into the show season 4 and started renting entire seasons, well, it does get tiresome after a while. Maybe its because I started watching in season 4/5 and met Ziva first, but Kate really annoyed me. The focus of season one was all about Kate and Gibbs interacting together. That got boring fast. Season 2 was really great I think, it gave all the characters a place.

I won't get too much into the other seasons because you haven't seen them, but it does seem like every season has a character focus. The whole thing with Tony, wait until the end of season 3 and season 4, that's where his character really gets interesting. Recommend taking a bit of a break before continuing, its a lot to take in, in such a short amount of time.

This was really funny, because Sasha actually went to the Director of the show and asked to be taken out of it because she doesn't like to do a character for too long, the fact that she lasted two seasons was a surprise, so for the season final, they announced that one of the main characters was going to die. That was the whole who was going to be reason they kept putting all the characters in danger. This is actually in the commentaries done for season 2 if you're interested.

Hmm, if you want character development hold out for season four *knowing wink*

And Abby/McGee I read somewhere that TPTB decided to dial back their relationship once they made McGee a regular to avoid shippiness o_O

As for Kate... I understand the actress wanted out? In my mind that made the transition smooth-er, and I agree that those three episodes are some of the best :)

Ziva I like enough, though I had a soft spot for Kate precisely because she was modern and indipendent and a bit of a prude, which is a combination that's rarely seen on tv these days. Ziva's own brand of sexiness is a lot more common (on the screen).

I stopped watching NCIS because I got so annoyed at Tony; he never seems to learn, or he does, only to forget again. I thought it just started being bad writing. (I liked Michael Weatherly better as Logan Cale on Dark Angel!) I occasionally watch--yes, for McGee. When they publicized that someone was going to die at the end of s2, I was terribly afraid for him!

My husband watches regularly, so I just wander in and out for the good bits. I can well imagine how wearing Ziva and Tony can get! I do think watching the episodes that fast doesn't help. I try to avoid watching any show that way (and since Small Child came along, that hasn't been a problem!).

They have a great cast, but I get frustrated at the writing. Funny how I seem to say that about multiple shows....

It's definitely giving me sympathy for people who complained about the focus on Sheppard and McKay in SGA's 3rd season, because if you find John and Rodney's bickering annoying, the show must have been almost unbearable.

Not just their bickering, but the entire focus of the show being on the two of them, to the exclusion of the other characters. But yeah. You've pretty much summed up what I was so frustrated with on the show--and that made Carson's fate that much more hateful. And, if I'm being totally honest, the fandom's entire, "What is your problem?" attitude about the John and Rodney-ness of the show is the rest of the reason I'm not interested in coming back to the fold.

I've gotten a couple of NCIS disks from Netflix; now I'm wondering if I should just send them back--like I have time to watch, anyway.... ;-)

Tony, in particular, I'm starting to find far more annoying than cute

Oddly enough (but bear in mind I watched the episodes all completely oout of order at first with a mish-mash of mostly Seasons 2 & 3 with some 1 and some 4 - am just now watching through all the Season 1 eps I hadn't seen) part of the reason I resisted getting into the show at first despite others' recommendations was that in the bits of eps I had seen, I found Tony annoying rather than cute... once I decided to give the show a try and watched more, he grew on me! :lol:

Have to agree that Tony really comes into his own in Season 4. :)

Give it time, give it time. I had the same frustrations as you with season three. I didn't like Ziva, didn't like all the bickering, and so gradually stopped watching. Then season four comes... well, I can't say too much, of course, so I'll just say that I started watching again.

I'll also say that I like Ziva, now. Her tough-chick, unflappable persona is quite nicely balanced with her crappy driving and inability to say Amrican phrases right. She's both warrior princess and super dork :D.

Well, at least she left because she wanted to! I sometimes feel bad for actors when they get written out of the show, although a lot of the time it seems to be the actors' decision as much as TPTB.

I ought to watch the commentaries ... I'm just not really "into" the show enough right now to feel like it.

See this is why NCIS is my 'popcorn' show. I don't have expectations. I'm not deeply rooted into the characters, even though I like the whole cast. Its my 'fun' investigate, let the team squabble and not think too deeply show. I often wondered what everyone else saw when I saw so many on my F-list go-on and on about it. I mean its entertaining but never drew me in hard core.

That being said, I like Ziva now more then when she first came on board over Kate. You have a point Kate and Tony's UST was much more subtle then with Ziva's and I think that came with the increased popularity of Tony's character from female fans and TPTBG felt they needed to push that aspect hard.

For me the hay-day seasons are 2-4....this season has been decent but nothing to write home about, except for the very beginning, none of the episodes realty stand out to me.

I like Tony, Abby, Gibbs, McGee. Once it came on USA twice on Wednesdays I Tivo all the old episodes because I missed a ton. Maybe scale back your intake. My two to three episodes a week is just the right amount and I enjoy it for what it is.

Hmmmm. It's been a while since I watched S3. I don't remember having a lot of problems with the show then though. I did miss Kate, and I loved Tony and Kate's bickering. I never really had a problem with Ziva though, and there were some times she really cracked me up.

In S5, though, I have to say I really did start getting irritated with her for the first time. I don't know...we'll see where it goes. I hope it gets better, because I really do love this show. We'll see what S6 brings, since S5 is basically dead due to the strike.

I agree with everyone that says Tony gets better in S4. He does - he grows a lot. Abby and McGee - I guess I just got the idea that they'd slept together and decided they were better friends than lovers, but there's still a little something there between them.

My thoughts are really scattered about this - I'm sorry! I'm trying to make an intelligent comment, but it's not really happening. :(

I just went away to refresh my memory by checking the IMDB.com episode list. There were some good episodes that season (what did you think of Frame Up? Bloodbath was another good one, but you haven't gotten there yet.), but yeah, now that I think about it, I think I was starting to get a little exasperated with Tony's antics that season. It gets better though.

Yeah, McGee and Abby tend to have an on-again, off-again relationship. One of the things I like about the show is that they do leave bits of character development (like Abby and McGee breaking up) off screen, because to me it makes it feel more realistic and less soap opera-y-- life goes on even when the camera isn't there-- but I can see how it could also be annoying that they don't make it clear that that's what happened.

Re: Tony & Ziva: One of the show's weak points (I think) is that they do tend to focus on certain character pairings-- not necessarily romantic pairings, but just who the main characters are in the episode, which characters get to do all the real work. Tony and Ziva are one of those pairings, and while it does get less heavy handed in later seasons (I think they were trying especially hard in S3 because she was new), it never does goes away completely.

Or like McGee, or Abby-- every so often it's kind of like they go 'oh, oops, we've kind of been neglecting these characters, haven't we', and then they'll do an episode focusing on one or the other. It kind of reminds me of the cartoons of my childhood, where they'd suddenly do an Extra Special Episode! about one of the minor characters in an attempt to balance things out, only it would just feel forced.

Not that NCIS is that bad, of course, and I do think NCIS does one of the best jobs at balancing an ensemble cast that I've ever seen in a crime show, but that's one area where I think they need work. Like you said, I'd love to see different characters pair up more often in an episode-- McGee and Ziva, especially. Or McGee and Gibbs. But the "Tony and Ziva Show" DOES get better in time, so I'd recommend giving it a few days so you don't overdose.

I was very disgusted with Tony's character that season, because he basically turned into a sexist pig and too much of a goofball. As it turns out, this was what the NETWORK wanted--who says the suits aren't a bunch of idiots? I have followed Don Bellisarius shows since the days of Magnum PI, so I heard about the stupid network on the NCIS discussion boards. They wanted to play Tony as less serious. Very annoying, since he started off as a bit goofy, but otherwise a good investigator with a brain.

Fortunately, the suits must have heard enough complaints that they've dialed Tony back a bit, and things are much better now. But you'll have to wait for a while longer, and I can't say more, since I don't want to spoil things.

The Tony and Ziva UST is still there, but it's toned down, and they've had some great shows focusing on Gibbs and a couple with Tim. There are some Abby scenes coming up where you just want to stand up and cheer.

So hang in there, but also it's probably good to take a break, too! (g)

Actually, I heard a little different story, that Sasha got burned out by the hours they kept working on the show, and that's why she quit. That was kind of borne out when Mark Harmon had his showdown with Don Bellisario over the hours last summer.

I think you may be right that I'm at least partly reacting to the change from what I'm used to. It's not my *only* issue, but I think it's probably true that if I'd started watching with the Ziva/Tony being as prominent as it is, I wouldn't be objecting to it now.

I was very disgusted with Tony's character that season, because he basically turned into a sexist pig and too much of a goofball. As it turns out, this was what the NETWORK wanted--who says the suits aren't a bunch of idiots? I have followed Don Bellisarius shows since the days of Magnum PI, so I heard about the stupid network on the NCIS discussion boards. They wanted to play Tony as less serious. Very annoying, since he started off as a bit goofy, but otherwise a good investigator with a brain.

It's really nice that it's not just me ... it feels like he's gone from being a competent investigator with an over-active mouth, to being so flippant and so lacking in propriety that it's a wonder anyone can stand to work with him.

But your comment and the others are giving me hope that things pick up.

Ah, gotcha.

And Abby/McGee I read somewhere that TPTB decided to dial back their relationship once they made McGee a regular to avoid shippiness o_O

... wuh? In light of how they've been playing up the Ziva/Tony (and Kate/Tony towards the end of last season) that makes no sense at all. But it sounds like the sort of decision that corporate executives might make...

I think Kate's awkwardness -- not knowing crime scene etiquette, having to struggle to find her place in the team, etc. -- really endeared her to me. Ziva's an outsider, but a different sort of outsider. Right now, I *want* to like her but I'm finding it hard.

Tony's definitely getting on my nerves. Other commenters tell me there's better to come, so I'm hanging in there for now.

No, don't let me scare you away! It really is a very good show, and for all I know, the characters who are driving me crazy at the moment might turn out to be your favorites. It's definitely worth giving it a chance.

And, like I've said before, I *am* really sorry that the fandom drove you away. For what it's worth, I know you weren't the only disillusioned fan who left around that time.

I've kinda followed this bell curve with Tony ... I started out being annoyed by him, then started seeing past the irritating surface to the nicer guy underneath, and then I've kinda swung back around on him because he's just *so* annoying this season! But people tell me it improves.

Your icon! Hee! Like it.

Right now, I kinda *want* to like Ziva but I'm finding it hard. But several people have said to wait and see, so ... I'm waiting and seeing. *grin*

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NCIS - a bit of griping

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Something happened to Kate . . .

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Re: Something happened to Kate . . .

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